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  • McRealistic wrote: View Post
    No way you can beat them without JV giving you 20 and 12 ... PPat is just no consistent enough and even if plays well, he is good for the bench. So basically, we don't have a reliable PF and hence JV has to step up.

    For us to beat them, it is all on JV.
    Sully averaged 22 and 12 per 36 against the Cavs in his first ever playoff series

    Not adjusting minutes, he was 12 and 7 in 20 MPG with 55% shooting.

    JV+Sully will be too much to handle for the Cavs down low

    Comment


    • Man, the longer sully sits, the more we're convincing ourselves he's the missing piece.

      The legend of "frankensteins fat foot"

      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

      Comment


      • DanH wrote: View Post
        So, similar results in dramatically different systems. I'm seeing no similar offensive skills described in your post at all.

        JV scores 2 points a game from putbacks. I guess the other 10 PPG don't count. And him being top 10 in screen assists is of no value either (and his threat as a scorer on the roll has nothing to do with his effectiveness as a screener).

        Hassan doesn't "put" the opponent in foul trouble. They hack him. And it works great.
        Omg, I don't even want whiteside and the jv homer wagon is circled.

        Aside from half a season of bosh, Miami's usage was led last yr by Wade and dragic. It's not "dramatically" different. This yr they're tanking.

        You so over emphasize the screen assists, the whole yr. We are 3rd in the league. Jv, bebe and whiteside are all top 21 and whiteside plays on a crap team. Fucking dleague bebe is .6 less than jv per game. When jv missed the OKC game Demar still dropped 37pts on 50% thanks in part to bebe's screens and the guy is a stick. Demar gets doubled routinely, it's not like jv becomes the go to guy or they fear the roll. It's not like we are relying on his post ups. He pins his man all the time and no one gives a shit. His ORtg is 117. Middle of the pack on our team.

        Whitside goes to the line less than 5 times, it's not hacka all game, every game. Twice as much as jv. Maybe if jv got the ball he'd get to line.

        Do you turn the TV off when raps play defense? I highly doubt our offense would collapse bc of whiteside but our defense would likely improve. That's all I said. The deal is not happening so there's no reason to coddle jv. Im fine to talk about trading anyone on the team. It's ridiculous how protective the jv fan boys are. It's like you gave birth to the guy in a manger.

        Comment


        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
          The Heat have a PG in Dragic so Wright or Joesph might not be of interest....

          I think Whiteside is a good player. He is a better shot blocker than JV is and a marginally better rebounder, but JV is a better FT shooter and marginally better offensive player. They both can be timed with calanders running down the floor and their passing skills are about the same. So maybe a 5% margin of change for the better if Whiteside were to be wearing the Raps uniform. Not sure thats enough to make the change and pay a premium to do it.
          Agreed. Sheesh!

          Comment


          • lewro wrote: View Post
            Omg, I don't even want whiteside and the jv homer wagon is circled.

            Aside from half a season of bosh, Miami's usage was led last yr by Wade and dragic. It's not "dramatically" different. This yr they're tanking.

            You so over emphasize the screen assists, the whole yr. We are 3rd in the league. Jv, bebe and whiteside are all top 21 and whiteside plays on a crap team. Fucking dleague bebe is .6 less than jv per game. When jv missed the OKC game Demar still dropped 37pts on 50% thanks in part to bebe's screens and the guy is a stick. Demar gets doubled routinely, it's not like jv becomes the go to guy or they fear the roll. It's not like we are relying on his post ups. He pins his man all the time and no one gives a shit. His ORtg is 117. Middle of the pack on our team.

            Whitside goes to the line less than 5 times, it's not hacka all game, every game. Twice as much as jv. Maybe if jv got the ball he'd get to line.

            Do you turn the TV off when raps play defense? I highly doubt our offense would collapse bc of whiteside but our defense would likely improve. That's all I said. The deal is not happening so there's no reason to coddle jv. Im fine to talk about trading anyone on the team. It's ridiculous how protective the jv fan boys are. It's like you gave birth to the guy in a manger.
            how the fuck was anything dan posted circling the "jv homer wagon"? you made a groundless statement and he called it out.

            if anyone is a fanboy on this site it's you with Nerlens Noel.

            Comment


            • lewro wrote: View Post
              Aside from half a season of bosh, Miami's usage was led last yr by Wade and dragic. It's not "dramatically" different. This yr they're tanking.

              You so over emphasize the screen assists, the whole yr. We are 3rd in the league. Jv, bebe and whiteside are all top 21 and whiteside plays on a crap team. Fucking dleague bebe is .6 less than jv per game. When jv missed the OKC game Demar still dropped 37pts on 50% thanks in part to bebe's screens and the guy is a stick.


              Comment


              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                Man, the longer sully sits, the more we're convincing ourselves he's the missing piece.

                The legend of "frankensteins fat foot"

                Well I have to do SOMETHING while he's hurt. Hoping for the best is never a bad option mate

                Comment


                • KHD wrote: View Post
                  how the fuck was anything dan posted circling the "jv homer wagon"? you made a groundless statement and he called it out.

                  if anyone is a fanboy on this site it's you with Nerlens Noel.
                  Yep, I am. He's available. I wasn't before that and won't be after.

                  So bebe avg 6.86 screen assists per 36. Jv 5.48. they're pretty much equal in all hustle stats except deflections where bebe is double in 9 mins less PT.

                  Comment


                  • tDotted wrote: View Post
                    Sully averaged 22 and 12 per 36 against the Cavs in his first ever playoff series

                    Not adjusting minutes, he was 12 and 7 in 20 MPG with 55% shooting.

                    JV+Sully will be too much to handle for the Cavs down low
                    JV + Sully are going to get run off the court.

                    GSW and Cleveland have been showing the league how to take slow big men out of the game for the last couple of years.

                    We can't play a JV + Sully front court against a LeBron, Frye front court. They'll be shooting open threes all day.

                    This really isn't even up for debate anymore. The only way you can go big against small is if your bigs can really run. And we don't have Anthony Davis, Towns, or anyone like that.

                    The plodding big man era is over. Big guys can still be good, but they better be quick or it doesn't work.

                    Comment


                    • Agreed oak tree

                      Even Yak I just joined the league poeltl has 7.2 screen assists per 36.

                      Comment


                      • OakTree wrote: View Post
                        JV + Sully are going to get run off the court.

                        GSW and Cleveland have been showing the league how to take slow big men out of the game for the last couple of years.

                        We can't play a JV + Sully front court against a LeBron, Frye front court. They'll be shooting open threes all day.

                        This really isn't even up for debate anymore. The only way you can go big against small is if your bigs can really run. And we don't have Anthony Davis, Towns, or anyone like that.

                        The plodding big man era is over. Big guys can still be good, but they better be quick or it doesn't work.
                        Frye is going to run someone off the court..

                        Comment


                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          So, jv averages 9 shots a game, 8 for his career. I'm no analytic wonder, perhaps DanH or Barolt can assist me on this..

                          Can jv shoot 110%?
                          I'm just waiting for his effort to be 110%.

                          Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Burn.

                          Comment


                          • Mess wrote: View Post
                            Oh you meant stats instead of skills.
                            I meant that they're productive in the same range. It's a skill to put the ball through the hoop, even if one guy has better/diverse techniques.

                            Comment


                            • It's really hard to make an argument that this team doesn't get a lot better if you swap JV for Whiteside.

                              Whiteside actually has the speed and mobility to play the kind of defensive schemes we want to and he's an elite shot blocker (possibly the best in the league, led the league in blocks last season). Offensively he's gonna have no problem finishing on the roll whatsoever. The screen assists for JV are overrated because he plays with 2 of the best pick and roll scorers in the league, of course he's gonna get a ton of screen assists.

                              If teams are gonna hack a Shaq Whiteside, go right ahead. He's not DeAndre or Drummond, he shoots 59% from the line on his career. He's getting like 1.2 point per possession on a trip to the line, so go ahead and give us that 120 oRTG play. It only really makes sense to hack a shaq guys who shoots < 50%.

                              On top of that we'd be reducing Whiteside's role/usage down closer to last year so one would expect that efficiency to spike back up as well. This year he has a bigger role as a shot creator and scorer so he's seen his TS% drop by 8% (yet people think JV's efficiency won't dip with a larger role for whatever reason), but get him back down to the 9 shots per game from last year (that JV also gets) and 20%-ish usage and we should see that TS% in the 60s, especially playing off screens with DeMar and Kyle.

                              Not that Miami would even do it but if I could trade JV and like another asset for Whiteside I'd do that in a heartbeat. Better fit, better player.

                              Comment


                              • The thing with Millsap is that he is the same age as LeBron, so he'll be 32 by february. Just a fact that I wanted to point out. With him as our 3rd ''star'' player, our window would be short. That's why I'm wondering if he's really worth Ross, Patterson and maybe even more (Poeltl, future picks?)...

                                At the same time, I think that a trade like this would fit both teams so well...
                                Last edited by charlesnba23; Wed Dec 14, 2016, 01:43 AM.

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