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  • golden wrote: View Post
    I don't know how impact stats work - are they heavily weighted by volume or efficiency? Boogie is clearly an uber high volume guy. And you can't even make the argument that he's a "good-stats on a bad team" type of guy, based on efficiency.

    With Boogie, I really think we'd be right back to the Lowry/Derozan/Gay situation all over again. I have a really hard time envisioning Lowry & DD on max contracts deferring to DMC as the go-to guy or vice-versa. Millsap seems like a "fit-in" type of guy, just like you said.
    Definitely. He would be the best fit

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Agreed. Then again he's consistently been a top-30 impact stats guy. He really has been surrounded by garbage his entire career.

      There's a huge risk to trading for him - he could ruin everything, or he could put the team over the top, there's no way to know. I think the team is better off targeting another borderline all-star in the mold of a Millsap rather than go for Cousins, personally, but I completely understand those who think if he could be had they should be chasing him with all they've got.
      I mean, I just compared Boogie to Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Clearly I don't think he's Shaq.

      I understand the dysfunction in Sacramento argument. I also think truly elite guys win games anyways, and Boogie has never been able to carry that team to wins. I think he's a high-usage, low-efficiency guy who can get numbers if he's given that usage, and that makes it really hard to put him with DeRozan without freezing out every single other guy on the team.
      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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      • .

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        • golden wrote: View Post
          I don't know how impact stats work - are they heavily weighted by volume or efficiency? Boogie is clearly an uber high volume guy. And you can't even make the argument that he's a "good-stats on a bad team" type of guy, based on efficiency.

          With Boogie, I really think we'd be right back to the Lowry/Derozan/Gay situation all over again. I have a really hard time envisioning Lowry & DD on max contracts deferring to DMC as the go-to guy or vice-versa. Millsap seems like a "fit-in" type of guy, just like you said.
          Impact stats are adjusted plus minus stats, of which there are many iterations. BPM from basketball-reference, RPM from ESPN, the older APM and RAPM, then there's Nylon Calculus' DRE (Daily RPM estimate). All of them are looking at how the team performs with the player on the court, adjusting for how good the opponents are, and adjusting for how good your teammates are. So it takes individual stats completely out of the equation (well, for the purest versions - some others find correlations between some boxscore stats and impact numbers and use them for smaller sample normalization, like BPM and DRE).

          In any case, no, low efficiency high volume scoring would not help him at all in impact stats.

          I definitely agree with the concern re: three primary options and no secondary ones.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • As talented as DC is I would rather see someone like jordon, kyle had excellent chemistry with him

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            • TRex wrote: View Post
              A couple of months ago, Lance Stephenson was seen taking a selfie wearing a Raptors jersey.

              Queue the Lance coming to TO rumours?

              This is much ado about nothing man.
              Lance was out of job couple of months ago and I think he wanted to sign anywhere he can

              So he was probably hinting to Raptors lol

              But yeah boogie wanting to come here would not mean he ends up here

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              • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                .....hmmmm let me think...no lol...you're still not getting the best big man in the game for bench players + late picks

                Getting players that fit a "need" mean absolutely nothing when a team gives up their best player (the player they needed to bring in players like that around) and are being forced to rebuild again but perhaps you're forgetting that?! Teams usually want a young player you can sell your fans on being a good up & coming player (Powell and JV) and picks (which we both agree on).

                I can't remember the deal SAC turned down from BOS last year but it puts that one to shame and the bottomline is in order get value, you have to give it. You are out of your mind if you think SAC won't laugh us right off the phone with an offer like that, they can EASILY get better VALUE than that. But your points are making me think of more complete trade offer (Wright, Powell, JV and our best 2017 pick -- possibly a second rounder as well). That covers a lot of bases where they take care of the holes at PG, SG and of course the largest their STAR C they were miserably trying to build around plus some picks.
                this pretty much what I said. There is no way a trade for Boogie is made without JV
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • Barolt wrote: View Post
                  I mean, I just compared Boogie to Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Clearly I don't think he's Shaq.

                  I understand the dysfunction in Sacramento argument. I also think truly elite guys win games anyways, and Boogie has never been able to carry that team to wins. I think he's a high-usage, low-efficiency guy who can get numbers if he's given that usage, and that makes it really hard to put him with DeRozan without freezing out every single other guy on the team.
                  DMC's past 3 All-Star quality seasons are way better than anything Shareef has done. DMC's first 3 years are the only things bringing his averages down to a point where they look like comparable players.

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                  • Barolt wrote: View Post
                    I mean, I just compared Boogie to Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Clearly I don't think he's Shaq.

                    I understand the dysfunction in Sacramento argument. I also think truly elite guys win games anyways, and Boogie has never been able to carry that team to wins. I think he's a high-usage, low-efficiency guy who can get numbers if he's given that usage, and that makes it really hard to put him with DeRozan without freezing out every single other guy on the team.
                    Yeah I wouldnt put DMC in that truly elite category ala Shaq and Duncan but I would say that he is a very high level big man and that imo his situation almost reminds of Chris Webber. C-Webb was putting up great stats on below average teams in GState and WAS until he finally joined SAC and had some better talent surround him and I really believe Cousins would do the same thing also kind of like how ZBo turned his career around in MEM.

                    He is a volatile player and has been a part of such a rocky franchise that has had absolutely no consistency at all and didnt bring him up with any strong vets to give him guidance. I really believe he would have a ZBo like transformation of his career here. I dont actually believe that he would put us over the top (I think we would need someone like PG who is truly dynamic to be inserted into our starting line up which is admittingly not realistic) but Cousins would make us a consistent threat to make the Finals moving forward. Without landing a LeBron, Kobe, Shaq (again the truly elite) in the draft or miracle trade, not sure what more you could ask for as a franchise really.

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                    • i'll admit that i would give up JV for DC for sure.

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                      • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                        i'll admit that i would give up JV for DC for sure.

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                        • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                          is it though! i feel like most people here wouldnt give up JV (plus whatever assets to make the money make sense) for DC.

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                          • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                            i'll admit that i would give up JV for DC for sure.
                            That's fine, but pretty much irrelevant.

                            The real question is, if the Raps were to build a package to get DC that would outbid other teams' assets, would you be happy including JV as part of that package? It would probably be something like JV, Powell, Wright, Poeltl and a couple picks, judging by previous trades of star players.

                            If a package is going to include all our best picks and prospects, I would not be comfortable with JV also being included.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Im just not comfortable tradin for DMC period. Does not seem like a winner to me, I don't care hkw dysfunctional the situation has been (and how much of that is his fault. A supposed franchise talent that has only led his team to one 30+ win season? That's pathetic. You simply don't see that happen. At least have some mediocre mid-30s win seasons in there. Very unimpressed by Cousins' career so far, which has been him putting up inefficient, inflated numbers on bad teams.

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                              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                                Im just not comfortable tradin for DMC period. Does not seem like a winner to me, I don't care hkw dysfunctional the situation has been (and how much of that is his fault. A supposed franchise talent that has only led his team to one 30+ win season? That's pathetic. You simply don't see that happen. At least have some mediocre mid-30s win seasons in there. Very unimpressed by Cousins' career so far, which has been him putting up inefficient, inflated numbers on bad teams.
                                Hard for anyone to have success when their top draft pick assets from all these terrible seasons have been wasted on Jimmer, Stauskas, McLemore (who seem like a good pick at the time at least) and Thomas Robinson. Robinson 5th overall is especially bad since he went ahead of Lillard, Drummond and Barnes - all players who would be significant contributors. Lillard and DMC would probably change the "not a winner" narrative, because environment and circumstance certainly changed the perception about Lowry and Demar in that regard.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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