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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    OakTree didn't have the #1 pick in his hypothetical trade proposal. It was JV for Powell + an expiring contract.
    Yeah, the expiring would be Bogut. Which is where the additional value comes in.

    The trade would look something like JV + Sullinger for Powell + Bogut. We would need to wait until Sullinger gets back on the court to make the deal, obviously.

    First, I think that Bogut is a better fit than JV with the starters, and with the roster in general. This is because of his combination of passing and rebounding. Also his time in Golden State shows he can work well with a perimeter dominated offense.

    Second, I think that Bogut's peak performance exceeds that of JV. In other words, he may not give you as many regular season minutes as JV, but when the playoffs come around, you can expect a high level of production.

    Third, he fills a very similar role as JV. In game situations that the coaching staff would turn to JV (times when you can play a defensive scheme where the C drops back to the basket off the pick and roll), then Andrew Bogut is probably a better solution than JV defensively.

    Fourth, because he has an expiring contract the Raps would then have more flexibility in the offseason. Especially with Patterson (who I think has to be resigned) and Lowry's contracts.

    Fifth, going in to next season, we would have BeBe, Poeltl and Dwight Powell as the center depth, and Patterson, Siakam and Powell at the PF without having to make additional moves, so we would be fine as far as roster construction for next season. Which would allow for us to take additional chances on projects in the draft or in free agency. If you think our PF depth looks shaky now, imagine what it looks like if we can't resign Patterson, and after Sullinger leaves.

    With our depth and the additional roster spots in the new CBA, I think swinging for the fences with high upside guys and relying on our strong player development is definitely the right approach.

    All this adds up to a run with the playoff tested Bogut in the mix this season. And better roster flexibility going forward.
    Last edited by OakTree; Fri Dec 16, 2016, 04:49 PM.

    Comment


    • I'm only listening if there's a lotto pick and then it's based on protection and whether a third team is involved. That's a good chip. Lots of teams won't have a fit for jv but most would want a good pick to fit a need. We can get a version of Powell for less money with our pick or the clips. If we flame out in the playoffs then it's worth considering to use the pick. I don't feel good about resetting our window around jv in the modern league. Also why I feel his value is low, plus all the other plodders sitting on benches around the league.
      We can and should go into the luxury for Lowry and Pat the way they and the team are playing now.
      Dallas would be dumb to give the pick unless it's lotto protected so I don't want it.

      Comment


      • OakTree wrote: View Post
        Yeah, the expiring would be Bogut. Which is where the additional value comes in.

        The trade would look something like JV + Sullinger for Powell + Bogut. We would need to wait until Sullinger gets back on the court to make the deal, obviously.

        First, I think that Bogut is a better fit than JV with the starters, and with the roster in general. This is because of his combination of passing and rebounding. Also his time in Golden State shows he can work well with a perimeter dominated offense.

        Second, I think that Bogut's peak performance exceeds that of JV. In other words, he may not give you as many regular season minutes as JV, but when the playoffs come around, you can expect a high level of production.

        Third, he fills a very similar role as JV. In game situations that the coaching staff would turn to JV (times when you can play a defensive scheme where the C drops back to the basket off the pick and roll), then Andrew Bogut is probably a better solution than JV defensively.

        Fourth, because he has an expiring contract the Raps would then have more flexibility in the offseason. Especially with Patterson (who I think has to be resigned) and Lowry's contracts.

        Fifth, going in to next season, we would have BeBe, Poeltl and Dwight Powell as the center depth, and Patterson, Siakam and Powell at the PF without having to make additional moves, so we would be fine as far as roster construction for next season. Which would allow for us to take additional chances on projects in the draft or in free agency. If you think our PF depth looks shaky now, imagine what it looks like if we can't resign Patterson, and after Sullinger leaves.

        With our depth and the additional roster spots in the new CBA, I think swinging for the fences with high upside guys and relying on our strong player development is definitely the right approach.

        All this adds up to a run with the playoff tested Bogut in the mix this season. And better roster flexibility going forward.
        did you even watch the playoffs last year?

        Comment


        • Bogut's peak was in Milwaukee before his injury. He is never getting back to that.

          Comment


          • KHD wrote: View Post
            did you even watch the playoffs last year?
            You should look forward, not backwards.

            JV has problems against the Cavs, so that's one probable series.

            Also, he didn't look good against Al Horford and the Celtics, so that's two probable series.

            Are you still confident in JV for a playoff run? Because, I'm not.

            Comment


            • OakTree wrote: View Post
              Yeah, the expiring would be Bogut. Which is where the additional value comes in.

              The trade would look something like JV + Sullinger for Powell + Bogut. We would need to wait until Sullinger gets back on the court to make the deal, obviously.

              First, I think that Bogut is a better fit than JV with the starters, and with the roster in general. This is because of his combination of passing and rebounding. Also his time in Golden State shows he can work well with a perimeter dominated offense.

              Second, I think that Bogut's peak performance exceeds that of JV. In other words, he may not give you as many regular season minutes as JV, but when the playoffs come around, you can expect a high level of production.

              Third, he fills a very similar role as JV. In game situations that the coaching staff would turn to JV (times when you can play a defensive scheme where the C drops back to the basket off the pick and roll), then Andrew Bogut is probably a better solution than JV defensively.

              Fourth, because he has an expiring contract the Raps would then have more flexibility in the offseason. Especially with Patterson (who I think has to be resigned) and Lowry's contracts.

              Fifth, going in to next season, we would have BeBe, Poeltl and Dwight Powell as the center depth, and Patterson, Siakam and Powell at the PF without having to make additional moves, so we would be fine as far as roster construction for next season. Which would allow for us to take additional chances on projects in the draft or in free agency. If you think our PF depth looks shaky now, imagine what it looks like if we can't resign Patterson, and after Sullinger leaves.

              With our depth and the additional roster spots in the new CBA, I think swinging for the fences with high upside guys and relying on our strong player development is definitely the right approach.

              All this adds up to a run with the playoff tested Bogut in the mix this season. And better roster flexibility going forward.
              It's not a terrible idea. I don't think it's one Masai would go for -- I see him more as a bloop single, steal a base, bunt to 3rd to get a run vs. swinging for the fences guy -- but there's merit there if you're really sure that you can't ever make it work with JV, Kyle and Demar...
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

              Comment


              • jimmie wrote: View Post
                It's not a terrible idea. I don't think it's one Masai would go for -- I see him more as a bloop single, steal a base, bunt to 3rd to get a run vs. swinging for the fences guy -- but there's merit there if you're really sure that you can't ever make it work with JV, Kyle and Demar...
                it is a completely terrible idea. Bogut+Powell and no usable cap space? are you joking?

                Comment


                • KHD wrote: View Post
                  it is a completely terrible idea. Bogut+Powell and no usable cap space? are you joking?
                  Where are you getting the no usable cap space?

                  That deal would free up roughly $8 million in cap space this offseason.

                  Which would mean we could probably sign Patterson and Lowry without going over the tax apron.

                  Which means we keep our bi annual exception, and get the full mid level exception.

                  I haven't seen the new CBA yet, though. It could be different now, but I would guess not by much.

                  Right now if we sign Lowry and Patterson we're probably blowing past the tax apron.

                  Comment


                  • KHD wrote: View Post
                    it is a completely terrible idea. Bogut+Powell and no usable cap space? are you joking?
                    I get it, you don't want to trade JV.
                    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

                    Comment


                    • jimmie wrote: View Post
                      I get it, you don't want to trade JV.
                      no, i don't want to give him away for scraps.

                      Comment


                      • OakTree wrote: View Post
                        Where are you getting the no usable cap space?

                        That deal would free up roughly $8 million in cap space this offseason.

                        Which would mean we could probably sign Patterson and Lowry without going over the tax apron.

                        Which means we keep our bi annual exception, and get the full mid level exception.

                        I haven't seen the new CBA yet, though. It could be different now, but I would guess not by much.

                        Right now if we sign Lowry and Patterson we're probably blowing past the tax apron.
                        so the solution is to trade JV for scraps in order to free up an exception that will allow us to sign a much much worse player than JV. stupid as fuck

                        Comment


                        • KHD wrote: View Post
                          so the solution is to trade JV for scraps in order to free up an exception that will allow us to sign a much much worse player than JV. stupid as fuck
                          To be honest, I'm starting to not value your homeriffic opinion very much.

                          Andrew Bogut is not a scrap. $8 million in cap space is not a scrap. Dwight Powell on a good contract is not a scrap.

                          Also, JV isn't exactly the second coming of Olajuwon. And, it should be clear by now, isn't a great fit here.

                          Comment


                          • KHD wrote: View Post
                            no, i don't want to give him away for scraps.
                            What do you think he is worth? Curious to hear from anyone about this. Its a tricky market imo.

                            Comment


                            • lewro wrote: View Post
                              What do you think he is worth? Curious to hear from anyone about this. Its a tricky market imo.
                              I don't think he's getting back a lottery pick + useless expiring. That's my read. Maybe late lottery.

                              Comment


                              • OakTree wrote: View Post
                                To be honest, I'm starting to not value your homeriffic opinion very much.

                                Andrew Bogut is not a scrap. $8 million in cap space is not a scrap. Dwight Powell on a good contract is not a scrap.

                                Also, JV isn't exactly the second coming of Olajuwon. And, it should be clear by now, isn't a great fit here.
                                He's worth more imo. Mlse should go into the luxury. The players and fans deserve it. If they dump jv to save money I would be pissed.
                                Jv is worth favors imo, if a three team deal worked and favors is healthy and available.

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