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  • It seems this decision is not caused by injury, didn't play even a minute against Nets tonight. Does his value plummets to the level they just keep him to spite him even more and let go in off-season or more ridiculously - match any offer as he is RFA? Embiid with yet another dominant performance (as dominant as it can be against lowly BKN). They might want to keep Okafor (minus defensively, but at least his character is in check and projects as nice score-first big from the bench - Vucevic looks similar).

    Still even if we trade for him (Delon/Bebe swap + 2nd rounder if needed to convince Philly, btw Fred VanVleet was nice tonight in backup role!) what can we expect?:
    1) Trade doesn't pan out, he is outraged yet again by his low minutes and not starting, bolts in FA or we match his offer and have disgruntled player with serious character problem in the locker room. But before that he poisons our chemistry, Lowry and DeMar stop being bros after 1st round exit.
    2) He accepts backup role, thrives in it similarly to Bismack, sometimes even closes game due to match-ups defensively, but hey FA incoming - no way if he shows same potential on that end he stays with us for less than $18M a year... And we have Lowry/PPat to reup this summer. Do we want to have $35M tied up to C position, while not having clear-cut star there?
    3) He is DefGod reincarnate and improves our defense to match our historical offense (and doesn't mess with it, as do well know C's only finish lobs in our sets). Quickly replaces JV in starting lineup alongside Patterson who is finally starting - this way both DanH and Chr1s1anL wet dreams come to reality. Without even shade of the doubt we give him contract in the summer, because you bring winning team back!

    Sure this is generalization, but this trade is buy low, but now low risk instead being highly volatile situation, it can elevate us or break us. Due to it's risk it's highly unlikely Masai will do it. He either plays it safe (Vasquez, Lue, DeColo were all safe moves) or is in situation he have to trade, because team is bad (Gay trade) or player will bolt in FA (Carmelo).

    Comment


    • Majesiu wrote: View Post



      It seems this decision is not caused by injury, didn't play even a minute against Nets tonight. Does his value plummets to the level they just keep him to spite him even more and let go in off-season or more ridiculously - match any offer as he is RFA? Embiid with yet another dominant performance (as dominant as it can be against lowly BKN). They might want to keep Okafor (minus defensively, but at least his character is in check and projects as nice score-first big from the bench - Vucevic looks similar).

      Still even if we trade for him (Delon/Bebe swap + 2nd rounder if needed to convince Philly, btw Fred VanVleet was nice tonight in backup role!) what can we expect?:
      1) Trade doesn't pan out, he is outraged yet again by his low minutes and not starting, bolts in FA or we match his offer and have disgruntled player with serious character problem in the locker room. But before that he poisons our chemistry, Lowry and DeMar stop being bros after 1st round exit.
      2) He accepts backup role, thrives in it similarly to Bismack, sometimes even closes game due to match-ups defensively, but hey FA incoming - no way if he shows same potential on that end he stays with us for less than $18M a year... And we have Lowry/PPat to reup this summer. Do we want to have $35M tied up to C position, while not having clear-cut star there?
      3) He is DefGod reincarnate and improves our defense to match our historical offense (and doesn't mess with it, as do well know C's only finish lobs in our sets). Quickly replaces JV in starting lineup alongside Patterson who is finally starting - this way both DanH and Chr1s1anL wet dreams come to reality. Without even shade of the doubt we give him contract in the summer, because you bring winning team back!

      Sure this is generalization, but this trade is buy low, but now low risk instead being highly volatile situation, it can elevate us or break us. Due to it's risk it's highly unlikely Masai will do it. He either plays it safe (Vasquez, Lue, DeColo were all safe moves) or is in situation he have to trade, because team is bad (Gay trade) or player will bolt in FA (Carmelo).
      The first scenario isn't likely at all. If he really somehow became that big of a detriment to the locker room he'd probably just get waived or cut, he's not going to make DeMar and Lowry hate each other. And on that note he isn't a locker room cancer or a malcontent, he's been stuck in a team that has been deliberately losing for 3 years. Now instead of at least being able to reap some rewards from that, thanks to them drafting two centers after him he can't even get minutes at his proper position.

      Seems like someone who wants a change of scenery so he can play and show his skills, not somebody who's going to tear a locker room apart. Even if he came here and was JV's backup, he'd be getting like 20+mpg on a top 5 team in the league and would get every bit the same kind of opportunity Biz got last year, if not more.

      Re-signing him isn't an issue. If we want to keep him, we can. Just a question of whether MLSE is willing to go into the tax, which Masai has said before is the case.

      Comment


      • I'm all in on the experiment. Can he put in any time at PF?

        Comment


        • He did say all he wants to do is play basketball, I don't think he cares if he plays as backup, he just wants consistent minutes. If the Delon + Bebe option shows up, you go for it. The reward is too great not to.

          Comment


          • lewro wrote: View Post
            The nuclear thing is unnecessary.

            Yes, we are thin at the 4. Open to talking about it, not a nuclear explosion.
            Yes, we'd be in trouble to lose Kyle and demar. Jv is not our 1,2. We could still be #2 seed with noel and no jv imo. Good teams like gsw are rumoured to noel bc it can help get you over the hump.
            For some here, it seems there is a consideration as potentially more than just a depth move, it potentially could allow us to take a step forward and i think that's really what bothers the JV fanboys. Personally, I'd consider the depth to have more weapons bc we need it and still have plenty of assets to address the 4, if and when one becomes available. Nothing on market atm. Been looking for 2 yrs. In the unlikely event a deal is made, id watch them play to make up my mind.
            Technically, it would not be a nuclear explosion, it would be a meltdown,

            Are the GSW in on Noel as you claim? Who is reporting this?
            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

            Comment


            • Puffer wrote: View Post
              I'm all in on the experiment. Can he put in any time at PF?
              Every time he's played PF it's been a complete disaster.

              We're just starting to finally get our rotation sorted. No need to be grabbing a backup C now, BeBe is doing an admirable job there.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

              Comment


              • DanH wrote: View Post
                Every time he's played PF it's been a complete disaster.

                We're just starting to finally get our rotation sorted. No need to be grabbing a backup C now, BeBe is doing an admirable job there.
                Good enough.

                Comment


                • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                  Technically, it would not be a nuclear explosion, it would be a meltdown,

                  Are the GSW in on Noel as you claim? Who is reporting this?
                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_explosion

                  No one is reporting anything. He's rumoured around numerous teams. Nothing official aside from the summer. Gsw does not have salary match but McCaw is oft linked. I have a sense of his value from talking to sixers fans/bloggers.

                  Comment


                  • lewro wrote: View Post
                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_explosion

                    No one is reporting anything. He's rumoured around numerous teams. Nothing official aside from the summer. Gsw does not have salary match but McCaw is oft linked. I have a sense of his value from talking to sixers fans/bloggers.
                    why are you so fixated on this throwaway analogy?

                    Comment


                    • Imo, if you can get Noel for Wright (and I guess Bebe for salaries) you have to do it.

                      Comment


                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Every time he's played PF it's been a complete disaster.

                        We're just starting to finally get our rotation sorted. No need to be grabbing a backup C now, BeBe is doing an admirable job there.
                        Not just a backup C. Potential starter, and imo a better fit than Valanciunas particularly on defense. Frees up the possibility of moving JV at the deadline for a major upgrade at PF. Allows us to potentially trade for the big names if they become available (Cousins, George, etc) without leaving a giant hole at the center position.

                        Comment


                        • The Raptors appear to be willing to give up a draft pick and at least one of their young prospects to improve their current roster, but there aren’t many options out there right now for Toronto. According to Wojnarowski, the club can afford to be patient and opportunistic since it has so many young players who are still improving. The Vertical scribe points to Denver’s 2012 acquisition of Andre Iguodala (the Nuggets gave up Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, a future first-round pick, and a second-rounder) as the type of deal Masai Ujiri might be open to making again.
                          http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/12/w...noel-heat.html

                          Comment


                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            The first scenario isn't likely at all. If he really somehow became that big of a detriment to the locker room he'd probably just get waived or cut, he's not going to make DeMar and Lowry hate each other. And on that note he isn't a locker room cancer or a malcontent, he's been stuck in a team that has been deliberately losing for 3 years. Now instead of at least being able to reap some rewards from that, thanks to them drafting two centers after him he can't even get minutes at his proper position.

                            Seems like someone who wants a change of scenery so he can play and show his skills, not somebody who's going to tear a locker room apart. Even if he came here and was JV's backup, he'd be getting like 20+mpg on a top 5 team in the league and would get every bit the same kind of opportunity Biz got last year, if not more.

                            Re-signing him isn't an issue. If we want to keep him, we can. Just a question of whether MLSE is willing to go into the tax, which Masai has said before is the case.
                            They gave Masai the green light a year ago.

                            Comment


                            • Lupe wrote: View Post
                              Not just a backup C. Potential starter, and imo a better fit than Valanciunas particularly on defense. Frees up the possibility of moving JV at the deadline for a major upgrade at PF. Allows us to potentially trade for the big names if they become available (Cousins, George, etc) without leaving a giant hole at the center position.
                              When has Noel ever made it seem like he could be a C in the middle of a top notch offence? And when are we going to get a chance to be fully confident he can start before we trade JV? We'd be trading assets for this guy, who we'll potentially have to give a boatload of money to to keep, and we probably have to make that choice before we get any real sample of him starting. He comes in and kills it off the bench, well, he's not doing any better than BeBe has.

                              And if a big name like that becomes available, you make the trade anyway and deal with the C position after.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                When has Noel ever made it seem like he could be a C in the middle of a top notch offence? And when are we going to get a chance to be fully confident he can start before we trade JV? We'd be trading assets for this guy, who we'll potentially have to give a boatload of money to to keep, and we probably have to make that choice before we get any real sample of him starting. He comes in and kills it off the bench, well, he's not doing any better than BeBe has.

                                And if a big name like that becomes available, you make the trade anyway and deal with the C position after.
                                Sometimes you have to take risks to get to a championship level. And nobody's talking about trading a boatload of assets. I wouldn't include any of our rotation guys in a Noel trade. Wright, Bebe (since Noel would be taking his minutes anyway) and a pick if necessary. That's not a big cost for that level of upside.

                                It's your opinion that he wouldn't be an upgrade on Valanciunas. I disagree. He can do all the things that JV is actually asked to do offensively (notice I said "asked to do" not "capable of" obviously JV is a more capable offensive player): run pick and roll, crash the offensive glass, and is actually more athletic which seems to make things easier playmaking wise for DeRozan and Lowry. Then the upside on the defensive end is at an absolutely elite level and much higher than Biyombo, which everyone seems to want to limit him to. Blocks and steals machine, small forward like lateral quickness and a very intelligent defensive player.

                                Don't even necessarily have to trade JV, although I would consider bringing him off the bench. Before you say that's crazy. It's not. A few teams are doing that now with their all offense, meh defense centers and letting them feast on second units while taking them out when they'll get killed defensively and limiting their minutes. That's a very real option if a trade for a star at PF isn't available.

                                All I know is if we stand pat we're getting swept by Cleveland (if we even get that far). Defense is nowhere near good enough.
                                Last edited by Lupe; Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:53 AM.

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