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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Can't be worth much. Kawhi Leonard, who is one of the best perimeter defenders I've ever seen, is at 25th this year (led the league the last two years), one spot below the corpse of Paul Pierce.

    Now, there are a lot of good defenders on that list, but what value does the measurement have if a guy who is a clearcut elite defender at his position and arguably the best defensive player in the league can slide from 1st to 25th in one season with no visible difference in his defensive abilities?
    He gets a lot of steals and Rebs which buoy his drpm. Noel and Okafor are meh rebounders and Embiid hardly plays. Roco cleans it up. He's not #1 SF defender like the stats suggest but as a solid mid-tier guy, who is paid like a scrub, his value is inflated. It's a bit like norm in terms of production/$ which is why Sixers fans always expected to get norm in return, not Cory. Obviously we know norm is too much and imo Cory is a decent offer, there's just no fit for them anymore. They see roco as a good long term backup behind Simmons. Similar with richaun Holmes behind joel but their fans love Noel too.

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    • lewro wrote: View Post
      Yes, I'm pathetically too familiar with this. Go back and listen to talking raps pod when this idea was floated. Even their pod this week, Nick defends Cory. I get it, hes from here, solid player, great guy, and apparently being "handsome" is an evaluation factor. That deal couldn't happen bc of $ and fit imo but it seemed to me like some felt it was a talent issue too. Noel is worth way more than cojo imo. That's what struck me as homerism. Forgetting the reality of JV for a sec, Noel and Ibaka front court would be ridiculous defence.
      #stillnotoverit
      If the primary targets were Ibaka or Millsap, then I think MU made the right choice holding onto assets and using them to grab your first choice & best fits. It's entirely possible that we might not have traded for Ibaka if Noel gets here first. I'm okay with the way things worked out.

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      • I guess there's no way we could get Noel anymore? A serge Noel front court would be awesome on D.


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        • Woj - Bulls/Celtics discussing a possible Butler trade.
          Mamba Mentality

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            If the primary targets were Ibaka or Millsap, then I think MU made the right choice holding onto assets and using them to grab your first choice & best fits. It's entirely possible that we might not have traded for Ibaka if Noel gets here first. I'm okay with the way things worked out.
            Agreed but I didn't want to trade Ross or a 1st for Noel, just Cory. Things were so toxic at that time, it seemed possible. I think you let Ibaka/JV/Noel compete, go deep into the luxury and dump the worst fit at the 2018 deadline. You get pennies on the $ but that's what you paid, except JV, #5 pick is no joke, but I have a hard time seeing full value for JV in any trade scenario. That said, masai is a magician.
            I'm just playing fantasy and masai is not gonna take this kind of gamble in reality. However, I do think risks are necessary, bc we need a lot of talent in every position (particularly on D) to legit compete with LeBron. You need a whole lotta nasty at 3/4/5 on that guy to have a shot.

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            • TRex wrote: View Post
              Woj - Bulls/Celtics discussing a possible Butler trade.
              Please no.


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              • Maury wrote: View Post
                I guess there's no way we could get Noel anymore? A serge Noel front court would be awesome on D.


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                I'm beginning to wonder if BC might just give up on dealing Okafor, allowing us to swoop in and steal Noel.

                If you watch the Vertical draft preview, though, I don't know if we'd be able to move Jonas easily, there really is a huge glut of centers. So it'd be a huge gamble (Noel is an RFA this summer) and I don't see Masai taking that huge a risk.

                Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/video/woj-r...025519235.html
                Last edited by Scraptor; Sun Feb 19, 2017, 05:58 PM.

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                • Maury wrote: View Post
                  I guess there's no way we could get Noel anymore? A serge Noel front court would be awesome on D.


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                  Nah, not just bc Sixers say no now but bc at the time it seemed like he might make biz $. Somebody is gonna offer even stupider $ now.

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                  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    I'm beginning to wonder if BC might just give up on dealing Okafor, allowing us to swoop in and steal Noel.

                    If you watch the Vertical draft preview, though, I don't know if we'd be able to move Jonas easily, there really is a huge glut of centers. So it'd be a huge gamble (Noel is an RFA this summer) and I don't see Masai taking that huge a risk.
                    Link plz

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                    • TRex wrote: View Post
                      Woj - Bulls/Celtics discussing a possible Butler trade.
                      At some point the Celts will do something. I don't take it as lightly as some do.

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                      • TRex wrote: View Post
                        Woj - Bulls/Celtics discussing a possible Butler trade.
                        Dammit. If they get that done it's over for us. They were bound to do something at some point. How long do you really want to hold onto all those assets. I can see it happening no question
                        I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                        • GLF wrote: View Post
                          Dammit. If they get that done it's over for us. They were bound to do something at some point. How long do you really want to hold onto all those assets. I can see it happening no question
                          Depending on kings, bulls are hovering in the lottery with that pick. And they are around the lottery with their own pick. IF they trade Butler then they will be in the lotto. Then you add the nets 1st, plus solid guys like one or two of Bradley/smart/Crowder.
                          They could get Fultz, monk, markanen or some such combo all in one move. That's potentially a crazy quick rebuild.
                          If that move happens, I could have seen us netting taj for Cory straight, just to help them tank. We resign taj and Pat combined for around the same money as ibaka and still have Ross and a 1st as chips. Of course, the Ibaka move might have pushed Boston to consider Butler more.

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                          • Normally it's kinda crazy to trade the potential#1 pick but Boston has another next yr too. They're just playing with Fultz like it's found money.
                            Masai is a genius but that deck is stacked.

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                            • GLF wrote: View Post
                              Dammit. If they get that done it's over for us. They were bound to do something at some point. How long do you really want to hold onto all those assets. I can see it happening no question
                              I don't know about that - would depend on the return for the Bulls - Butler is on a (relatively) team friendly contract (signed through 2019-2020), and Jimmy has said that he'd be loathe to leave Chicago, so they'll likely ask a King's ransom for him.

                              I would think that the package from the Celtics would include Brooklyn's pick this year. Assuming that the Bulls want to go younger and more athletic, would figure that Jaylen Brown would also be included . In order to get salaries to match, Boston would probably want to include Amir, but Chicago has Gibson, Mirotic, Felicio, Lopez, and Portis at PF/C. Chicago definitely doesn't need another big, but Amir could be appealing to Chicago, because its an expiring deal, and would give Chicago some cap room for the free agent class - but don't think that a return of an expiring Amir, Jaylen Brown, and Brooklyn's pick in this year's draft would be enough for Chicago's front office to avoid public backlash, so they may have to include multiple firsts to get the deal done, but may be wary because they are reaping the benefits from the Nets doling out too many picks in deals.

                              If Amir isn't included, then the Celtics would have to include one of Avery Bradley or Cody Zeller in the deal to get close to matching salaries, and I don't think that the Celtics are going to want to part with Bradley with the hopes of advancing deep in the playoffs. Including Zeller means that the Bulls would have to send a big back to Boston (otherwise, Horford and Olynyk would be the only centers on the roster, and the Celtics would get punished by teams with offensive-minded centres).

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                              • Boston has cap room so Bradley+ brown is enough. Bulls can even through in Canaan to match roster spots.
                                That's the thing, Boston is #2 with cheap contracts, cap room/flexibility and major pick assets. They have the trifecta.

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