Everything Trade Chatter

[sanyo]

Cousins has too many issues... great player but not a guy I want in the locker room.

Look at Sac and how it's a revolving door for players...

[Nilanka]

Cousins has too many issues... great player but not a guy I want in the locker room.

Look at Sac and how it's a revolving door for players...

Is it fair to blame Cousins for Kings management's inability to build a half-decent roster?

[Axel]

Is it fair to blame Cousins for Kings management's inability to build a half-decent roster?

It's kind of interesting that in a league where players are often given too much leeway in dictating roster/coaches that Boogie really doesn't seem to get what he wants at all over there.

"Who needs a PG when we could draft a 3rd and 4th string center in the lottery?"

[Nilanka]

He's going to be a free agent.


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Trade this year before the deadline. That's a gamble I'd take hoping that (1) Ibaka desperately wants to be part of a winning organizing again, and (2) Masai can use his African pull to convince him Toronto is the place to sign long-term. If I'm not mistaken, we'd have his Bird Rights.

[DanH]

Trade this year before the deadline. That's a gamble I'd take hoping that (1) Ibaka desperately wants to be part of a winning organizing again, and (2) Masai can use his African pull to convince him Toronto is the place to sign long-term. If I'm not mistaken, we'd have his Bird Rights.

We would indeed have his Bird Rights.

To match salaries on Ibaka, we'd need to send out at least 8.1M in salary. So Ross would do it. Or Sullinger plus BeBe plus Van Vleet.

I'm kind of out on Ibaka though. He has been declining fast for a long time now. Maybe a good year in Orlando (off to a rough start so far - his numbers look good but he's looked like a disaster on defence) could convince me it was just OKC messing with his role, but at the price he'll command in the summer he has to be better than he's been over the past couple years.

[JamesNaismith]

My only contribution to this thread is this:

I hope we trade our 2017 picks for Ibaka

*Puking*

Ibaka has been on a decline and personally I feel he's a bit overrated. His block shots are declining and he's really not that good offensively. Of course he's going to be able to nail wide open shots with all the attention KD and Russ were getting. Flame away but in a couple years I really don't think Pascal will be that far off from present Ibaka if at all, except Pascal is actually very quick. I definitely wouldn't waste picks on Ibaka.

I would only do so for a younger borderline all star and above like DMC (of course packaged with JV) and even Milsap I'd be hesitant to part with more than a single pick when he just like Ibaka could walk. Either guy is going to cost a lot more than we'll have available after Lowry. Bad move to trade unless whatever player is already signed and we send out equal salary.

[DanH]

*Puking*

Ibaka has been on a decline and personally I feel he's a bit overrated. His block shots are declining and he's really not that good offensively. Of course he's going to be able to nail wide open shots with all the attention KD and Russ were getting. Flame away but in a couple years I really don't think Pascal will be that far off from present Ibaka if at all, except Pascal is actually very quick. I definitely wouldn't waste picks on Ibaka.

I would only do so for a younger borderline all star and above like DMC (of course packaged with JV) and even Milsap I'd be hesitant to part with more than a single pick when he just like Ibaka could walk. Either guy is going to cost a lot more than we'll have available after Lowry. Bad move to trade unless whatever player is already signed and we send out equal salary.

Ooh, disagree on two things here - trading JV for Cousins is very risky, as Cousins' fit beside Lowry/DD is unproven, and you are trading from an area of strength to make an upgrade in that same area of strength, which is always a tricky proposition. Never mind the locker room risks. I could get on board with such a trade, but I don't think I'd be convincing anyone of it.

Bigger disagreement is on Millsap - if you are going all in on Lowry this summer and are willing to pay good money to compete, Millsap is exactly the sort of guy to gamble on. Upgrading an area of weakness (dramatically) at the cost of only picks/prospects and bench players? Done deal in my mind. Obviously you don't want to go deep into future draft picks (as there is a long term risk to locking up Lowry/Millsap) but both picks this year are easy enough to part with.

And what do you mean by "what we'll have available after signing Lowry?" If we are willing to pay, we can keep either player (Ibaka/Millsap) and Lowry.

[Mess]

I was going to say it sucks that Atlanta actually may be good this year, but turns out they've played some pretty garbage teams so far.

And if you thought Scola on defense was bad, you should see Dirk try to move his feet.

[Nilanka]

I was going to say it sucks that Atlanta actually may be good this year, but turns out they've played some pretty garbage teams so far.

And if you thought Scola on defense was bad, you should see Dirk try to move his feet.

Casey managed to "hide" Dirk on defence once before

[Nilanka]

*Puking*

Ibaka has been on a decline and personally I feel he's a bit overrated. His block shots are declining and he's really not that good offensively. Of course he's going to be able to nail wide open shots with all the attention KD and Russ were getting. Flame away but in a couple years I really don't think Pascal will be that far off from present Ibaka if at all, except Pascal is actually very quick. I definitely wouldn't waste picks on Ibaka.

I would only do so for a younger borderline all star and above like DMC (of course packaged with JV) and even Milsap I'd be hesitant to part with more than a single pick when he just like Ibaka could walk. Either guy is going to cost a lot more than we'll have available after Lowry. Bad move to trade unless whatever player is already signed and we send out equal salary.

Agree that Ibaka is on the decline, but a change of scenery could be what the doctor ordered. Besides, with our guard-heavy offense, it's not like we'd need an offensive force at the 4.

And Ibaka might actually be obtainable (unlike Millsap) if Orlando continues to suck, and they fear he won't sign long term. Magic gave up a lot to lose him for nothing.

Siakam might come close one day, but we have to stop emphasizing 3-4 years down the road. The Raptors are in "win now" mode while DeRozan and Lowry are in their primes. Can't waste these years waiting for late picks to blossom.

[Mess]

Casey managed to "hide" Dirk on defence once before

6 years ago. How do you think Myles turner went off for 30 in the season opener? Dirk was guarding him and attempting to box him out. And Dirk had to sit out the next two games.

Not picking on you or Dirk or planetmars, but if Ibaka is on a decline, Dirk is Homer falling down Springfield Gorge.

[white men can't jump]

Is it fair to blame Cousins for Kings management's inability to build a half-decent roster?

To a certain degree...yes. if he acted like the talent some people think he is it would inherently bring stability, and players would want to play for Sacto. He pushed out Thomas because he didn't want to share the ball with a score first PG. He couldnt get along with a HOF coach in Karl who was brought in to stabilize the situation...and Karl has coached guys like Melo whose leadership has been questioned, and a total nutbag in Kemp. Rudy Gay was brought in to be a complimentary 2nd/3rd option type guy and apparently he wants out. Rondo lasted a year, and as flawed as I think he is he's always acted like winning matters....

To me it's pretty clear Cousins does impact the revolving door of coaches and players we see, even if the higher ups play a big part as well.

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[Axel]

To a certain degree...yes. if he acted like the talent some people think he is it would inherently bring stability, and players would want to play for Sacto. He pushed out Thomas because he didn't want to share the ball with a score first PG. He couldnt get along with a HOF coach in Karl who was brought in to stabilize the situation...and Karl has coached guys like Melo whose leadership has been questioned, and a total nutbag in Kemp. Rudy Gay was brought in to be a complimentary 2nd/3rd option type guy and apparently he wants out. Rondo lasted a year, and as flawed as I think he is he's always acted like winning matters....

To me it's pretty clear Cousins does impact the revolving door of coaches and players we see, even if the higher ups play a big part as well.

I never heard anything about him forcing Thomas out. You sure?

[DanH]

Agree that Ibaka is on the decline, but a change of scenery could be what the doctor ordered. Besides, with our guard-heavy offense, it's not like we'd need an offensive force at the 4.

And Ibaka might actually be obtainable (unlike Millsap) if Orlando continues to suck, and they fear he won't sign long term. Magic gave up a lot to lose him for nothing.

Siakam might come close one day, but we have to stop emphasizing 3-4 years down the road. The Raptors are in "win now" mode while DeRozan and Lowry are in their primes. Can't waste these years waiting for late picks to blossom.

Ibaka's offence doesn't concern me (well, it's not my main concern). By basically every measure, he's been declining rapidly on the defensive end for years.

BLK%, from 2011-12 to 2015-16: 9.8%, 7.4%, 6.7%, 5.8%, 4.5%
So far this year (SSS): 2.4%

DBPM, from 2011-12 to 2015-16: 3.8, 1.9, 2.3, 1.3, 1.0
So far this year (SSS): -3.2

DRB%, from 2011-12 to 2015-16: 18.2%, 17%, 19.6%, 18.1%, 16.2%
So far this year (SSS): 11.3%

With the exception of rebounding, where he peaked 3 years ago instead of 5 years ago, he's been on a steady defensive decline for half a decade. And early returns, untrustworthy as they may be, are not the least bit encouraging this year.

[Mess]

I recall hearing that as well.