Everything Trade Chatter

[DanH]

Because I think some people aren't factoring reality into this decision...

1. It's making the assumption MLSE will be willing to repeat offenders of the cap without having the massive draw n ratings dollars of LBJ

2. Most of you I guess aren't taken into consideration Paul will be 32 n already was dealing with an injury. Should really take q look at how drastically most big men's careers changed after that age ie/ even better PFs like Webber, KG n Barkley and we're suggesting maxing him out?! lol If Paul was in his late 20s absolutely I don't worry about this n get it done but the move doesn't make much sense as some of you think

It's a short term all in move (while retaining several long term pieces for insurance) and makes perfect sense - Lowry is the same decline risk, and the idea is to capitalize on however many effective Lowry years we have left, because it is rare to get a player that good.

[lewro]

I agree with Dan that we have to sell some bench pieces with prospects/picks to land a good starter but agree with Naismith that millsap is old. He's still a perfect fit and productive but not enough vs. Bron. He'd take us 7 close games and that would be exciting but youre selling years of the future for that. Look how good Masai is with the picks and prospects. He might land a Giannis/kawhi talent. We increase our window, remain relevant. It's gonna take time and some luck/saavy.
I don't see a need at all to rush bc of Lowry and Dmc.

[JamesNaismith]

Who are the new players we'd need to sign? End of bench guys? How much of our bench do you think we are trading away to get Millsap? You know the other team has to have roster spots open to absorb incoming players, right? At most it is probably 3 outgoing guys to get Millsap, or maybe 4 if 2 guys come back our way. Either way, only cutting 2 guys from the roster. In theory we wouldn't have to sign anyone else at all, but we'd still have the tax MLE and the minimum exception to sign guys to add depth. Assuming Sully and Pat and Ross are gone (two in the trade, one in free agency), you still have Siakam and Poeltl (or BeBe depending on who gets moved for Millsap) and CoJo and Powell and maybe even Wright as your bench. That assumes both picks are traded away plus one of the C prospects along with the salaried bench pieces.

End of bench?! lol what are you smoking?? You do realize that 1. in order get Millsap you have give up players of value 2. to match his salary at minimum we'd need to move Corey, Ross and PP or Sully. So now we're depleting our depth at both PG and already thin SF which also so happens to be two positions of aging and injury prone players and the trade is made for a player who is even older, just coming off an injury and will be asked to be the primary post defender being that JV is alright not to mention PF is a position is now a position played not only banging in the post but darting around the perimeter....sounds great for old legs. Again please go look at the stats curve for most bigs over 32 years of age.

I love Millsap's game and his fit but his age and contract aren't a wise decision.

[JamesNaismith]

It's a short term all in move (while retaining several long term pieces for insurance) and makes perfect sense - Lowry is the same decline risk, and the idea is to capitalize on however many effective Lowry years we have left, because it is rare to get a player that good.

It doesn't make sense when you're committing at least 4+ years of salary for a team that will have likely the same 2 year window that an urgent LeBron shares.

I agree with consolidating assets just not for an old player with a very small window that I'm not even confident will last past the next season given he just came off an injury and is a big that will be asked to do a lot on both ends of the court.

[DanH]

End of bench?! lol what are you smoking?? You do realize that 1. in order get Millsap you have give up players of value 2. to match his salary at minimum we'd need to move Corey, Ross and PP or Sully. So now we're depleting our depth at both PG and already thin SF which also so happens to be two positions of aging and injury prone players and the trade is made for a player who is even older, just coming off an injury and will be asked to be the primary post defender being that JV is alright not to mention PF is a position is now a position played not only banging in the post but darting around the perimeter....sounds great for old legs. Again please go look at the stats curve for most bigs over 32 years of age.

I love Millsap's game and his fit but his age and contract aren't a wise decision.

Believe it or not, yes, I do understand trade rules. And no, we would not have to move all of Cory, Patterson and Ross, not by a long shot. Two of them would be enough, as long as Ross moves, which is exactly what I outlined in my post. Odds are it would be Patterson and Ross plus prospect/pick assets. If we are re-signing Millsap, we are not bringing back Patterson or Sully anyway, so both are expendable. Meanwhile, we'd be replacing Ross in the rotation with Powell. And replacing Patterson with Millsap (Siakam would play his small minutes role off the bench instead of starting). We'd essentially be losing one piece of bench depth (whatever young player gets sent out as prospect cost - Poeltl or BeBe or Wright). Wright might actually be the piece as ATL could use a good young backup PG.

Why would Millsap be the primary post defender? JV is one of the best one on one post defenders in the league. Millsap will get a lighter load than usual - he'd be surrounded by solid rebounders, he'd be the third or 4th option offensively, and can provide some support for bench units as a playmaker. Plus playing a far slower pace with this team simply means less energy exertion compared to the the high octane running offences that he's used to.

There is certainly risk. Such is life. But the risk in trading bench pieces and prospects/picks for a guy like Millsap is suppressed by the relative youth of guys like JV, Powell and even DD, who should still be very solid contributors in 3-4 years when the Lowry/Millsap pair will be in decline.

[lewro]

It doesn't make sense when you're committing at least 4+ years of salary for a team that will have likely the same 2 year window that an urgent LeBron shares.

I agree with consolidating assets just not for an old player with a very small window that I'm not even confident will last past the next season given he just came off an injury and is a big that will be asked to do a lot on both ends of the court.

Agree with the first paragraph 100%. Like I'd rather have syndergaard than dickey.
The second paragraph is a bit exaggerated. Dan is right imo that millsap should still be good for the first two years but Naismith is right that the latter two years not so much. Like having 45m tied in old Hawks treadmill garbage for two years vs Bron et all and giving up picks, prospects and good role players!? Big pass.
I can admit that I have noel love goggles on. Dan, I think you have the same in millsap a bit.

[DanH]

Agree with the first paragraph 100%. Like I'd rather have syndergaard than dickey.
The second paragraph is a bit exaggerated. Dan is right imo that millsap should still be good for the first two years but Naismith is right that the latter two years not so much. Like having 45m tied in old Hawks treadmill garbage for two years vs Bron et all and giving up picks, prospects and good role players!? Big pass.
I can admit that I have noel love goggles on. Dan, I think you have the same in millsap a bit.

I might. Millsap has been a win producer on the level of DeRozan for the last few years at about 10WS per year. Noel has never cracked 4 WS in a season or posted an above average per minute number. I'm willing to overlook things like age and cost when the result is another star player. Guy like Noel, who may or may not be an above average starter? I mean, it's good he is young. But it's just another long term gamble, and he'll be getting paid this summer, so I don't know that it is really a much lower cost proposition.

[lewro]

Dan, pat and delon wouldn't mean that much value. It's more likely cory and Ross imo. Clips look like the Blake stuff is behind them so our picks are not so great, even combined (in terms of value in trade but Masai could work his magic if we keep them)
I don't think the drop off in Lowry and Milly is as slight as you suggest or as steep as Naismith thinks. There's a middle ground. Still they're not good enough now and it's only gonna get worse, with a big price and a loss of most of our expendable assets.
Fundamentally you're positioning your timeline around Lowry. He is great but not that great. He's a late bloomer that's at his peak and maybe starting to pass it. I love him too tho.
I'd like to see Ross and norm play more before trading either. Especially them playing together.
I just don't share your urgency and I 100% agree with Naismith re lebrons urgency. Let that train pass and grab the next one.

[lewro]

I might. Millsap has been a win producer on the level of DeRozan for the last few years at about 10WS per year. Noel has never cracked 4 WS in a season or posted an above average per minute number. I'm willing to overlook things like age and cost when the result is another star player. Guy like Noel, who may or may not be an above average starter? I mean, it's good he is young. But it's just another long term gamble, and he'll be getting paid this summer, so I don't know that it is really a much lower cost proposition.

Dude, 4ws!? I'm not a stats guy like you so help me out; does that category relate to his team winning? Bc he plays for Philly.
Noel has potential to dpoy. Yes, potential, agreed but like you said always a risk in trade and he is WAY cheaper than Milly.
If the price is right than I'm ok with him as a rental. We need his service now imo and he might fit better than jv. I love jv. But we could land such a great pf with him. Still retaining all our other assets to tweak other moves and keep our depth.
What happens if jv gets injured? Hopefully Sully is back by then but a fatty on one foot? That's ok but not ecf ok.

[JamesNaismith]

I might. Millsap has been a win producer on the level of DeRozan for the last few years at about 10WS per year. Noel has never cracked 4 WS in a season or posted an above average per minute number. I'm willing to overlook things like age and cost when the result is another star player. Guy like Noel, who may or may not be an above average starter? I mean, it's good he is young. But it's just another long term gamble, and he'll be getting paid this summer, so I don't know that it is really a much lower cost proposition.

That is such a ridiculously unfair comparison. Noel was playing on the biggest flaming pile of garbage in the league and only in his second season really. Millsap is exiting (if not exited) his prime and a far superior team. Also not sure where this notion of Milsap working less on defense is coming from when ATL has been one of the best for the past several years and now how has Howard anchoring their D.

It's like you're just putting on your blinders to his age and position. This is the same guy that played way back under Jerry Sloan when AK47 was still relevant, DWill and Boozer were all stars. 32 particularly as a post player is not a good start point especially when DD is not a good defender and Carroll post injury has been a shell of his roleplayer self. Also pointing out JV being a top (keywords here) *one on one* defender doesn't help Millsap in the scheme of the TEAM's defence.

Again I ask you to take a good look at the majority of big men's stats after the age of 32 especially in light of the fact Millsap is coming off an injury and before you can say it, it doesn't need to be a leg to show that wear n tear is starting to set in on his body, if his obvious decline athletically wasn't enough. Again would absolutely love Millsap a couple years or so ago but taking him on for an extremely limited window that matches LeBron's is short-sighted as it gets and if there was any draft where a pick in the 20s that will be meaningful (nvm Powell 2nd Rd I know n Siakam) it's this one.

[Chr1s1anL]

Saw some where apperantly Philly is looking for Cory and a 1st. Not saying its legit but, what do you guys think?

If Delon was healthy I would have to serious think about it.

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[lewro]

What do you guys think of noel/favors on raps? I'm thinking Utah wants Golbert/Lyles long term. So a three team trade centred around jv to someone that needs him and we get favors. Like jv to pelicans, 1st rd to Utah, favors to us.

[Chr1s1anL]

With the way Big Yak is playing right now I wouldn't do it though. Poeltl has better two way upside than Noel. Even though Noel is the better player right now.

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[lewro]

With the way Big Yak is playing right now I wouldn't do it though. Poeltl has better two way upside than Noel. Even though Noel is the better player right now.

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I agree with you here but it's still early for yak and I can see subbing both depending on matchup as yaks offense comes along. Also grooming yaks offense to our needs which could mitigate and expand some of what we have in jv. Jv will get better at what he does but I'm not sure he gets sooo much better at what we need. we could trade noel as yak improves in a few years. My biggest concern with yak is toughness. Noel is not super tough or strong but he plays with an edge that I love and is super useful in the playoffs. I could see favors handling some bigger post players on d while noel plays more perimeter 4s, then noel in high post with favors down low setting screens. Shooting would be an issue but I think favors has mid range potential. Favors could develop into a millsap type, kinda.
This idea stems from what could be available and a close fit. Both guys come with youth and reasonable cost (hopefully) that would still leave us some assets to tweak are bench for matchups like a true stretch 4 backup. I also think cojo and delon are good pieces to grease the wheels in Utah.
One thing for sure is that Masai is a genius and put us in a great position. I along with many others questioned the yak draft. We have good options here.

[lewro]

Saw some where apperantly Philly is looking for Cory and a 1st. Not saying its legit but, what do you guys think?

If Delon was healthy I would have to serious think about it.

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I see it as far as young, dependable guard under cheap contract for a few years.
They want simmons to play point forward so they need ideally 3pt guy at sg like Ross. I'm sure that's what BC covets. Thinks he could get more outta Ross. That said a backup that plays defense could be the best offer they get and still useful piece for them. I don't know you need the 1st unless it's a bidding war and at that point maybe walk away.
I would like to see delon and fvv play. I think delon could replace cory at the 1 and 2. Thing I like about fvv is he's more of a pass first floor general that has decent range and he has some Lowry winning mentality in him. We could definity use more passing and shooting. So I see it as a potential upgrade over cory (combining fvv/delon) but we have to play these guys first. It will help when 905 start. I'd prefer an expanded rotation. 5 mins of fvv over Lowry this early is a good idea to me unless fvv shits the bed. He's pretty solid, if unspectacular imo.