Lupe wrote:
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The reality though is if MLSE isn't willing to pay the tax we aren't going anywhere anyway.
If you don't trade JV and are able to get Millsap by moving out Ross, CoJo and others it's a bit more manageable. Then you have about $71M in guaranteed money owed. If you can get Millsap/Lowry for $65M combined in the first year then you're looking at pushing $140M and being about $18M over the tax threshold.
No matter what, if we acquire Millsap, unless we also dump Carroll somehow MLSE is going to have to pony up and pay some serious tax money. There's no way to Donald Trump this unfortunately.
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Lupe wrote: View PostLet's say we did Ginobili's deal (I think there's some issues with it though). Here's what the summer situation looks like with CoJo, Sully, Ross and JV's deals going out and Covington, Millsap, Nerlens coming in. Source: Basketball Insiders
Guaranteed Salaries Owed in 2017-18:
DeMar DeRozan: $27,739,975
DeMarre Carroll: $14,800,000
Jakob Poeltl: $2,947,320
Lucas Nogueira: $2,947,305
Bruno Caboclo: $2,451,225
Delon Wright: $1,645,200
Pascal Siakam: $1,249,920
Norman Powell (TO): $1,014,746
Total: $55,579,260
Then you have Lowry, Millsap, Nerlens as the main free agents you need to bring back.
Now let's say worst case scenario where all 3 guys require a max to bring them back. That's just under $92M in total right there based on a $102M cap projection (You're paying Lowry and Millsap $33.6M each in the first year and Noel $24M). So you're looking at a $147M payroll with 11 players signed. Toss in our draft pick and a few minimums to fill out the roster and let's just round it to about a $150M payroll.
Luxury tax threshold should be around $122M in 2017-18 so we'd be in the highest bracket of tax "offense" being over $28M over the tax. Which means MLSE would pay $3.75 per dollar for the first $20M over ($75M) and then another $4.25 for the next $8M ($34M - not 100% sure if it's $4.25M for 5M then $4.75 for 3M or this way). So you're looking at like $110M in luxury tax payments on top of $150M for the players' wages.
That's the absolute worst case scenario but yeah it's pretty bad. Especially when you consider we'd be getting hit by the repeater tax afterwards.
$28mm would thus be $75mm, which is still pretty high. But if you can dump Carroll to say Brooklyn and give them our 2019 pick, the tax bill would be roughly...
(28 - 14.8 = 13.2 over the line) so 7.5 + 8.75 + 3.2*2.50 = $24.25mm in luxury tax.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htmLast edited by Scraptor; Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:36 AM.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostNo dude, the $3.75 level is for the incremental dollars above $20mm over the cap. The first $20mm over would cost us $45mm in luxury tax (7.5+8.75+12.5+16.25).
$28mm would thus be $75mm, which is still pretty high. But if you can dump Carroll to say Brooklyn and give them our 2019 pick, the tax bill would be roughly...
(28 - 14.8 = 13.2 over the line) so 7.5 + 8.75 + 3.2*2.50 = $24.25mm in luxury tax.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm
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DanH wrote: View PostI'll add that it is possible ATL pushes for more. I seriously doubt Denver ponies up much for Millsap, he'd be a huge flight risk for them. If we can do the deal above, I pull the trigger without hesitation.
Denver reportedly offered Faried some prospects and first round draft picks for him last season. They, like us have a lot of depth in positions and could give up several players without really doing significant damage to their roster.
The flight risk isn't necessarily that high. They'd be a playoff team in the west for starters and secondly Millsap actually grew up near Denver in Montebello.
Also, for those who didn’t know, Millsap lived in the city of Montebello from the age of two through 13, meaning if he were to come to Denver it would be a homecoming of sorts.
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My eyes tend to gloss over fan create trade proposals but just wanted to add to keep in mind:
Atlanta is a team that historically never does a full rebuild because then ownership group is very happy to be a playoff team that doesn't pay luxury tax as it maximizes their profits. Therefore any trade that is a full rebuild for them is less likely. They currently sit 5th in the East - which is their financial sweet spot.
Rentals are notoriously difficult to predict the market for. Reportedly, Atlanta isn't shopping Millsap as much as they are fielding calls for him. If the return isn't there for them, they might hold him and take their chances to resign him.
Denver is the other listed team to be interested and they are difficult to peg in this. They are currently tied for 8th (but lose tie breaker) in the West with Sacramento. If Millsap is leaving Atlanta (as a free agent) because he wants to sign with a contender then it's hard to see him resigning with Denver, regardless of past mailing addresses as a youth.
If the Raps do make a move or some of the moves being floated around, retaining those players past this season will likely mean going into the tax. Will MLSE approve that? I like to believe that Masai could see anyone on anything at anytime but the cold hard reality of dollars and cents might be too much for ownership to approve.
As always, make sure you use the trade machine to match salaries and consider that both Atlanta and Toronto already have 15 players on their roster - so unbalanced trades should identify players to get waived (while keeping in mind that owners tend to not like to eat salary so unguaranteed or partially guaranteed deals are more logical).Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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Lupe wrote: View PostSome notes on this, Denver is a real threat to outbid us for him.
Denver reportedly offered Faried some prospects and first round draft picks for him last season. They, like us have a lot of depth in positions and could give up several players without really doing significant damage to their roster.
The flight risk isn't necessarily that high. They'd be a playoff team in the west for starters and secondly Millsap actually grew up near Denver in Montebello.
http://milehighsports.com/paul-mills...home-colorado/
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Lupe wrote: View PostThe flight risk isn't necessarily that high. They'd be a playoff team in the west for starters.
Key thing is what ATL want. As is repeatedly said they don't want to tank, but after Horford failure last year they come around and want to flip Milsap for something. So let's dive and look into their next round contracts, Milsap is reported to opt out (one can assume that means not only he is looking for another team, but also for substantial rise from $21.5 M, which also lowers his trade value).
And that's all, it is $62M commited for these 7 players, renouncing everyone (not really an option, they have to use bird rights if they want to fill up rooster with nba caliber talent) gives them almost $40M, so max territory, it's surely be different team for ATL next year. Their depth chart is not really deep for next year:C Dwight Howard $23,5M 31 SG Kent Bazemore $16,9M 27 PG Dennis Schroder $15,5M 23 PG Malcolm Delaney $2,5M 27 SF Taurean Waller-Prince $2,4M 22 SF DeAndre' Bembry $1,5M 22 PF Ryan Kelly $1M 25
Schroder/Delaney
Bazemore
Waller-Prince/Bembry
Kelly
Howard
And only 3 players seems viable on that rooster. Other than Howard/Baze/Dennis only Delaney is averaging more than 10 MPG (16,5), rest of these guys is barely playing.
Incoming picks are 2nd rounders and 2018 first from MIN, so not bad.
They need more players for upcoming season, and they even might cut expirings to make a deal if that means bringing more guaranteed contracts they'd like to have in the future. Their biggest hole is at PF and SF, they should be looking at guard and center depth. If you watched ATL, their offense involved a lot of ball movement, creating wide open shoots, so definitely adding players that can shoot will entice them - Ross. Another interesting player would be PPat, but he is FA, so not really huge value for them. Both Nougeira and Poeltl are capable backups, but I assume it'd be weird bringing BeBe back to ATL, so Poeltl seems like another piece the'd be interested in. Siakam also have superb first half ot the season and caught many eyes. We have a lot of players ATL should interested, and what's even better they are locked on cheap contracts, any combination of them should be enough to get the trade done, because ATL need to make a move before trade deadline if they want to stay competitive next season. Using cap space + resigning expirings (minus Milsap, who is as good as gone) probably won't be enough to keep in the playoffs next season.(and they are overachieving with 2 games over .500 right now). Contracts works also in favor of Nuggets, because their whole rooster (minus Gallo with PO for next year) is locked up for upcoming years.
If they'd look at our rooster I guess that'd be tiers of interest:
Tier 1 - Ross
Tier 2 - Poeltl, Joseph, Powell
Tier 3 - Siakam, Nogueira
Tier 4 - Patterson, Delon
Bruno - Caboclo
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Puffer wrote: View PostFunny how in the game thread Beebe was hot garbage, and when it comes time to make a trade for an all star he morphs into a "capable backup."
For me, Bebe has always been an interesting backup C but until he can prove he can play a full season healthy, I'd be very concerned about handing him a starting spot.Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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Hey Majesiu, I realize it wasn't you criticizing Beebe, and then talking him up. I meant it in general terms since several others have suggested he would be able to serve as either a trade piece or to fill in if JV went out the door. I thought your post was an interesting read.
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Paul is also a pretty high usage guy. Been around 24-25% the last 4 seasons. Would go down a touch here but I think it'd be even more easy to handle a big who's better defensively but worse offensively than JV as he wouldn't really need or demand any touches. Could run a lot of pick and roll action with Millsap also which would be devastating given his ability to create as the roll man (something 2Pat and JV can't really do).
That's why I actually think it's not a bad idea to move JV in this deal if you can get a mobile, defensive minded center from another team as part of the trade or in a quick follow up, hence the Noel suggestion.
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Puffer wrote: View PostFunny how in the game thread Beebe was hot garbage, and when it comes time to make a trade for an all star he morphs into a "capable backup."
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Majesiu wrote: View PostNo idea why'd you say something like that under my post, where I call BeBe capable backup, I barely even discuss in game threads due to another timeLast edited by Axel; Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:44 AM.
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