Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

[JamesNaismith]

Honestly, I don't get why Boston didn't trade this pick for a big man at the deadline. Instead, they went after Butler & George.... like idiots. Unless they do plan to get Ball & play him next to IT.

Personally, trading down & getting Markannen is smart for Boston. He's a good shooter, would fit their system well & would allow them to let Olynyk go in RFA, clearing up cap space. Either that or they draft Ball and then trade his rights for that rim protector (Maybe Vucevic of Orlando?).

Wow I'm really not trying to be a jerk when I say this but those imo are truly awful ideas. Ainge would go from looking like a genius to taking Billy King's place as worst GM.

The only big man that was available was Drummond and that would be shortsighted at best. Yes he rebounds but that would be nowhere near enough to beat the Cavs especially come Playoff time when Drummond can't stay on the court with his FT shooting. Butler may not make as much difference because Crowder provides a lot of what he does but George would absolutely be a better idea. Right now BOS is totally reliant on IT to score and come up big in pressure moments hence the supposed king of the 4th quarter. But come Playoffs double teams and longer or better defenders will stop that (also why they get knocked out in the 1st rd). PG immediately alleviates that problem and makes teams play It more honest which is very tough n you'd need to pick your poison. Not to mention again they could get that big man in the next draft, not like they need to teach rebounding.

Then a trade to ORL for Vucevic, is even worse. He's a bad defender hence signing Biz and again why is BOS making such a shortsighted move to fit a current overachieving team?! Their current team is a bunch of roleplayers with one scorer that Stevens does an incredible job coaching. I don't see any reason to try and go our route of building a team without a true superstar when they will have the chance to add 2 in the next couple of years that one can only imagine the possibilities of what Stevens can do with actual elite talent.

[JamesNaismith]

I think you're really overrating the draft Naismith. Yah ball looks great, but you never know. And next year is a total wild card, could be full of great talent, maybe it's a weak draft. We'll have to wait and find out.


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If you're going to say I'm overrating the draft you have to explain how so.

Ball's style of play fits the new style of bball like a glove. Guys that can distribute and score (ie Harden, Russ n LBJ) run this league. Will he be as good as Harden or Russ?! Maybe, maybe not but he does have their style of play n is showing great team management right now. If you look through the top 10 or so, majority have legit chance to be at an all star level and there are at least several names outside of the top 15 that could as well which nearly every basketball analyst agrees with. Yes of course not all will pan out n some will bust but as it stands now heading into the draft there are very few in the last decade that rival it's potential depth.

As for next year's draft being a "wild card", that's fairly irrelevant to BOS considering they have another likely top 3 pick. Watch a little more about the top 5 of next year's draft while outside of the top 7 might be a wild card, the top 3 is far from it.

[KeonClark]

Wow I'm really not trying to be a jerk when I say this but those imo are truly awful ideas. Ainge would go from looking like a genius to taking Billy King's place as worst GM.

The only big man that was available was Drummond and that would be shortsighted at best. Yes he rebounds but that would be nowhere near enough to beat the Cavs especially come Playoff time when Drummond can't stay on the court with his FT shooting. Butler may not make as much difference because Crowder provides a lot of what he does but George would absolutely be a better idea. Right now BOS is totally reliant on IT to score and come up big in pressure moments hence the supposed king of the 4th quarter. But come Playoffs double teams and longer or better defenders will stop that (also why they get knocked out in the 1st rd). PG immediately alleviates that problem and makes teams play It more honest which is very tough n you'd need to pick your poison. Not to mention again they could get that big man in the next draft, not like they need to teach rebounding.

Then a trade to ORL for Vucevic, is even worse. He's a bad defender hence signing Biz and again why is BOS making such a shortsighted move to fit a current overachieving team?! Their current team is a bunch of roleplayers with one scorer that Stevens does an incredible job coaching. I don't see any reason to try and go our route of building a team without a true superstar when they will have the chance to add 2 in the next couple of years that one can only imagine the possibilities of what Stevens can do with actual elite talent.

Agreed. Why would you trade a potential franchise player in his teens for a stop gap big? They ain't winning no rings with Vucevic or even cousins

[Cody73]

Wow I'm really not trying to be a jerk when I say this but those imo are truly awful ideas. Ainge would go from looking like a genius to taking Billy King's place as worst GM.

The only big man that was available was Drummond and that would be shortsighted at best. Yes he rebounds but that would be nowhere near enough to beat the Cavs especially come Playoff time when Drummond can't stay on the court with his FT shooting. Butler may not make as much difference because Crowder provides a lot of what he does but George would absolutely be a better idea. Right now BOS is totally reliant on IT to score and come up big in pressure moments hence the supposed king of the 4th quarter. But come Playoffs double teams and longer or better defenders will stop that (also why they get knocked out in the 1st rd). PG immediately alleviates that problem and makes teams play It more honest which is very tough n you'd need to pick your poison. Not to mention again they could get that big man in the next draft, not like they need to teach rebounding.

Then a trade to ORL for Vucevic, is even worse. He's a bad defender hence signing Biz and again why is BOS making such a shortsighted move to fit a current overachieving team?! Their current team is a bunch of roleplayers with one scorer that Stevens does an incredible job coaching. I don't see any reason to try and go our route of building a team without a true superstar when they will have the chance to add 2 in the next couple of years that one can only imagine the possibilities of what Stevens can do with actual elite talent.

1st bold: Not true. Two big men were moved that would've been helpful in Cousins & Noel. Either one would've been a nice fit in Boston. Also, Vucevic was available according to rumours. Vucevic may not be a elite defender, but he's a great rebounder for his size & if you put him in a good system, he'd be retty solid out there. He's also a good passer, averaging nearly 3 assists per game & also blocks shots. TBH, he's a lot like Jonas if Jonas was used more often.

2nd bold: You call yourself a Raps fan and then shit on us. Having one of the best back courts in the league as well as All-NBA talent isn't enough to call Lowry & DD superstars for ya? Also, you're shitting on the talent on Boston besides Thomas. That team is doing good for a reason, and it's not all just IT. They have a lot of guys that are good in key areas. They really just need a guy who gets boards and SOMEWHAT protect the rim along with being a presence in the post on offense. That's it.

[KeonClark]

1st bold: Not true. Two big men were moved that would've been helpful in Cousins & Noel. Either one would've been a nice fit in Boston. Also, Vucevic was available according to rumours. Vucevic may not be a elite defender, but he's a great rebounder for his size & if you put him in a good system, he'd be retty solid out there. He's also a good passer, averaging nearly 3 assists per game & also blocks shots. TBH, he's a lot like Jonas if Jonas was used more often.

2nd bold: You call yourself a Raps fan and then shit on us. Having one of the best back courts in the league as well as All-NBA talent isn't enough to call Lowry & DD superstars for ya? Also, you're shitting on the talent on Boston besides Thomas. That team is doing good for a reason, and it's not all just IT. They have a lot of guys that are good in key areas. They really just need a guy who gets boards and SOMEWHAT protect the rim along with being a presence in the post on offense. That's it.

Boston can potentially be good for the next 10 or 15 years with these picks in '17 and '18. Could win a championship AFTER this stupid talented warriors team passes on. The moves you're suggesting set them up to lose in 6 against cleveland like we did last year.

[JamesNaismith]

1st bold: Not true. Two big men were moved that would've been helpful in Cousins & Noel. Either one would've been a nice fit in Boston. Also, Vucevic was available according to rumours. Vucevic may not be a elite defender, but he's a great rebounder for his size & if you put him in a good system, he'd be retty solid out there. He's also a good passer, averaging nearly 3 assists per game & also blocks shots. TBH, he's a lot like Jonas if Jonas was used more often.

2nd bold: You call yourself a Raps fan and then shit on us. Having one of the best back courts in the league as well as All-NBA talent isn't enough to call Lowry & DD superstars for ya? Also, you're shitting on the talent on Boston besides Thomas. That team is doing good for a reason, and it's not all just IT. They have a lot of guys that are good in key areas. They really just need a guy who gets boards and SOMEWHAT protect the rim along with being a presence in the post on offense. That's it.

Again I'm not insulting you but I'm really blown away by how truly unbelievably shortsighted you're being.

Your last post you said that they should have traded "this pick" which I have to assume is the BKN pick and now you've also added Noel into the conversation *barfs*....that has to be possibly the worst idea ever. There's a reason all BC could get was a couple of 2nd Rd picks are you're suggesting a potential #1 overall?! My God is that ever awful. Cousins possibly but again you can see from SAC actually got for him a top 3 pick may have been an overpay. Keep in mind IT and Crowder aren't exactly great, stable personalities. But I'll give you that Stevens MAY and should have been able to figure something out. I still don't believe that he gets them past CLE and as I and KeonClark stated you're talking about locking in 2 superstar like talents for at bare minimum 7 years and both actually are supposed to have great character.

Vucevic is not even worth debating imo lol but you're out of your mind if you think a JV like player puts BOS over the top lol he's part of the reason we can't. Then not to mention it also means you're making Markannen come off the bench since presumably by your own rating of Vuc's value he n Horford would be starting and taking the lions share of the minutes but moving along...

Then you seem to be taking it personal for what's a honest assessment of both clubs. I'm sorry to get you all in your feelings but Kyle and Demar are all-stars and studs in this league but superstars they are not. It could be a matter of how we differ in defining what a superstar is but to me there are stars (which KL, DD and IT are) and then there are superstars (LBJ, Durant, Russ, Harden) they are a notch up even from the other stars in the league. I'm sorry but none of those guys qualify as one hence why (not just me) but much of the media even says we're trying to create a contender without a superstar like the Pistons did. Take what I say about BOS however you want but it's true and no its not IT at the center of it, it's Stevens. Please show me who outside of IT is a roleplayer...high level roleplayers absolutely but they aren't really stars and IT like Lowry was a STAR that went under the radar until he hit the right system and had the right coach to believe in his abilities. If you want to believe that the only thing between BOS and a championship is a rebounder that's on you but I think you're nuts if you think one suddenly gets them by CLE n GSW. Again IT can't carry his team all by himself, EVERY championship team needs more than one star.

[Maury]

If you're going to say I'm overrating the draft you have to explain how so.

Ball's style of play fits the new style of bball like a glove. Guys that can distribute and score (ie Harden, Russ n LBJ) run this league. Will he be as good as Harden or Russ?! Maybe, maybe not but he does have their style of play n is showing great team management right now. If you look through the top 10 or so, majority have legit chance to be at an all star level and there are at least several names outside of the top 15 that could as well which nearly every basketball analyst agrees with. Yes of course not all will pan out n some will bust but as it stands now heading into the draft there are very few in the last decade that rival it's potential depth.

As for next year's draft being a "wild card", that's fairly irrelevant to BOS considering they have another likely top 3 pick. Watch a little more about the top 5 of next year's draft while outside of the top 7 might be a wild card, the top 3 is far from it.

You're overrating it because you're predicting superstars in the top 3 of both drafts. Look at the history of the draft - it's a crap shoot. The amount of talent that you predict is in this draft alone is more than the last 5 drafts combined. You can just never know how these guys are gonna turn out. Obviously the draft is a great place to find talent and to jumpstart a franchise but it's not very consistent.

Regarding next year's draft, it's even more of a wildcard than this year because big boards change. The guy you have as number 3 right now might fall out of the first round by the 2018 draft. You never know about the draft.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just that you need to have perspective on the draft.


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[lewro]

I'm going to read all these comments from start to finish and try to participate but at first glance I'm just happy to have a convo that isn't play JV/fire casey for the first time in months.

[DogeLover1234]

You're overrating it because you're predicting superstars in the top 3 of both drafts. Look at the history of the draft - it's a crap shoot. The amount of talent that you predict is in this draft alone is more than the last 5 drafts combined. You can just never know how these guys are gonna turn out. Obviously the draft is a great place to find talent and to jumpstart a franchise but it's not very consistent.

Regarding next year's draft, it's even more of a wildcard than this year because big boards change. The guy you have as number 3 right now might fall out of the first round by the 2018 draft. You never know about the draft.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just that you need to have perspective on the draft.


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Very true, the draft is a crap shoot and you may get a bust, but i imagine a gm would have confidence in their team to make the right pick. Also if they are looking to trade the pick, shouldn't they look at the picks potential to net a superstar, which is very high with both brooklyn picks? History shows that you get really good teams by drafting superstars, especially with the new CBA, so it makes the most sense to keep the best draft picks regardless of how hyped the class is. Thats why teams don't trade lotto picks for solid rotation players.

For celtics specifically, I wouldn't move the brooklyn pick for PG because you dont know if you can keep him, and you couldn't keep everyone in free agency that makes you good now, so you have a contender for maybe a couple of years. Plus they have a teenager that looks like he could be a two way star in brown, who is a teenager. The greatest part about the celtics team building imo is that they have the foundation for a contender for the next decade with accumulating young talent, but have the luxury to win as much as possible right now, and I wouldn't mess that up unless you can get the likes of Lebron/KD/Leonard etc.

[Maury]

Very true, the draft is a crap shoot and you may get a bust, but i imagine a gm would have confidence in their team to make the right pick. Also if they are looking to trade the pick, shouldn't they look at the picks potential to net a superstar, which is very high with both brooklyn picks? History shows that you get really good teams by drafting superstars, especially with the new CBA, so it makes the most sense to keep the best draft picks regardless of how hyped the class is. Thats why teams don't trade lotto picks for solid rotation players.

For celtics specifically, I wouldn't move the brooklyn pick for PG because you dont know if you can keep him, and you couldn't keep everyone in free agency that makes you good now, so you have a contender for maybe a couple of years. Plus they have a teenager that looks like he could be a two way star in brown, who is a teenager. The greatest part about the celtics team building imo is that they have the foundation for a contender for the next decade with accumulating young talent, but have the luxury to win as much as possible right now, and I wouldn't mess that up unless you can get the likes of Lebron/KD/Leonard etc.

I agree on keeping the picks unless a true superstar player becomes available, but let's not pretend that you're gonna get to draft Lebron two years in a row most of the time.


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[JamesNaismith]

You're overrating it because you're predicting superstars in the top 3 of both drafts. Look at the history of the draft - it's a crap shoot.

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Hey I'm not taking this personal at all, I don't think you're being rude but I just think you need to provide further substance than what you are to call my statements an overreaction. The onus is on you to provide some reasonable arguement as to why you don't think Ball, Fultz, Porter or Ayton project as superstars. There has to be a rationale provided on their merits why you think they don't. From everything I've seen and why other many analysts are doing likewise, they currently project to be superstars. If you don't think so then provide me an explanation of why not. If not I'm not overrating because it's a prediction not a guarantee so there isn't anything off unless you can cite why they are overrated.

The amount of talent that you predict is in this draft alone is more than the last 5 drafts combined. You can just never know how these guys are gonna turn out. Obviously the draft is a great place to find talent and to jumpstart a franchise but it's not very consistent.

Regarding next year's draft, it's even more of a wildcard than this year because big boards change. The guy you have as number 3 right now might fall out of the first round by the 2018 draft. You never know about the draft.

The first part of your statement isn't even remotely true.

I said there is a chance (keyword) to that majority of the top 10 (which would be 5+) can have a legit chance to be an all-star (not superstar). The last 5 have VERY EASILY produced more than 5+ all-star quality players, in fact the top 5 could all very easily be superstars and a couple are arguably generational talents.

Let's just take a look...

Anthony Davis
Karl Anthony Towns
Giannis
Kristaps Prozingis
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Andrew Wiggins
Devon Booker
Ben Simmons
Damian Lillard
Draymond Green

Should I continue?! Because that very easily debunks your statement.

What I will give you is your comment about how big boards can change because you're absolutely right about that. A guy who's in a top 3 now can fall off a cliff and it's happened before so fair point. But again if we go based on we can only go on what they have done to date and so far Porter Jr (who pending an injury as about as bust proof as it gets) and Ayton have shown all the tools to be a superstar at the next level hence all the excitement around them and again these are predictions not guarantees. So based on how they look now there's no reason to believe they can't reach that level. I don't guarantee it so I fail to see how I lack perspective on it.

An overrating would be if I guaranteed it OR if I predicting a player that didn't have the body of work to support it was going to be a star. ie/ if I predicted OG Anunoby will be one. Really I have no idea, if I look at his physical tools and talent base there is some potential to be a star or better but his current skills and body of work don't support that bold of a prediction and would fit the bill of "overrating". Predicting (not guaranteeing) that players who look to fit the bill is not overrating, sorry, it's simply a prediction based on some evidence, you're providing none other than saying the draft can be a crap shoot without actually providing an actual analysis as to why saying these players don't project as such.

[lewro]

If you're going to say I'm overrating the draft you have to explain how so.

Ball's style of play fits the new style of bball like a glove. Guys that can distribute and score (ie Harden, Russ n LBJ) run this league. Will he be as good as Harden or Russ?! Maybe, maybe not but he does have their style of play n is showing great team management right now. If you look through the top 10 or so, majority have legit chance to be at an all star level and there are at least several names outside of the top 15 that could as well which nearly every basketball analyst agrees with. Yes of course not all will pan out n some will bust but as it stands now heading into the draft there are very few in the last decade that rival it's potential depth.

As for next year's draft being a "wild card", that's fairly irrelevant to BOS considering they have another likely top 3 pick. Watch a little more about the top 5 of next year's draft while outside of the top 7 might be a wild card, the top 3 is far from it.

Which analysts? Ones that I trust like givony and vecenie think it's two guys that COULD be superstars and another 6-8 to that COULD be all stars and then another 4 guys that COULD be good or very good starters.
As for next yrs draft, guys like bam and Giles were seen as locks to be top 5 to 10 picks at this time last yr. Now they might not make the first Rd. Just like skal was #1 and fell to #27. That said, skal looks good recently but is he a franchise player? Doesn't look it yet.

[lewro]

Man, you guys type faster than I can think

[lewro]

Markanen to me is a bit like Dirk and would be best next to a Chandler type and not Horford. Similarly, I think Boston would be better to have a Chandler type next to Horford.

[JamesNaismith]

I agree on keeping the picks unless a true superstar player becomes available, but let's not pretend that you're gonna get to draft Lebron two years in a row most of the time.


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Now this statement is an overreaction.

You don't need to draft a "LeBron" 2 years in a row. LeBron is in conversation to be a top 2 player all time so that would be perhaps the most ridiculous hope a franchise could ever have.

However if you're in the top 3, it's not outlandish that you could be there to draft a Davis, KAT, Kristaps, Embiid, Giannis, Jokic etc and if you added 2 of those types of players to the current BOS team with Stevens as the coach....BOS future projects to be on an entirely different level.