Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

[DanH]

https://www.raptorshq.com/2017/2/24/...j-tucker-trade

Here's the article in question and the comments in response. Imo it's not honest and complete coverage to omit JV from this conversation. I seriously doubt that is masai's mindset or that he's a half-brain.
We now have multiple rumours about JV and not Demarre.
Again, you want to move demarre then what will you give up? Siakam? Ok, if you can find a taker then we might have to do it. What if it takes Delon or a future 1st? I doubt masai does that and I'd be pissed - all that to protect JV!? Forget it. No one values JV as highly as this forum.

Thanks for the traffic. You'll note my reasoning hasn't changed from those comments. I presented Carroll as an option in the article, and left many other options (JV, letting Pat walk, trading other salary pieces) unexplained.

Every Raptor forum has someone saying no one values JV as highly as that forum.

JV was definitely always an option, just not an option I liked, nor in my opinion the most beneficial option, hence why I presented the Carroll one as the default. If anyone is overvaluing JV, it's those who expect to be able to move him with a significantly better return (re: cost) than they would need to move Carroll. It's not a friendly market for big men.

[lewro]

https://www.raptorshq.com/2017/2/24/...j-tucker-trade

Here's the article in question and the comments in response. Imo it's not honest and complete coverage to omit JV from this conversation. I seriously doubt that is masai's mindset or that he's a half-brain.
We now have multiple rumours about JV and not Demarre.
Again, you want to move demarre then what will you give up? Siakam? Ok, if you can find a taker then we might have to do it. What if it takes Delon or a future 1st? I doubt masai does that and I'd be pissed - all that to protect JV!? Forget it. No one values JV as highly as this forum.

[KHD]

Help me OG Anunoby.
You're my only hope.

nice

[GOLDBLUM]

I don't think I've seen Dan "not consider it." Here in the forums he seems aware of the very real possibility that it might end up being JV to go. The fact is, if you replace Demarre with literally ANYBODY, D-league, undrafted, you name it, we're a BETTER team. I think this is virtually true. He has SUCKED for us and has an albatross of a contract without it even being extremely massive dollars. You can NOT, (in my opinion,) say the same of JV. We're not as good a team with Poeltl as our starting center, not yet, not with Bebe, not with Joe-Schmoe drafted 56th outta effing Idaho. We're WORSE without him. Some people have no love for him. I guess we're divided there. We've seen JV have spurts of great, warrior (not GSW) basketball. He's not perfect but he can be very good at what he does. We've NEVER seen that from Demarre. He's an excellent shopper if you're into fluffy-effing shoes. Full-stop. Even with Ibaka at the five, if that's the way we primarily end up rolling, he will get KILLED on the glass many, many nights and beaten up on the whole. I simply don't think he's the answer to our needs at the 5. Could he be the answer at the 4 that we've ALWAYS been looking for?? -- yup. Maybe the best 4 we've ever had. JV is a not KAT, not AD, not DMC, but he's got a definite skill set that can make him a highly useful player. He's been used ABISMALLY here way too much of the time. If we want a "culture change", start freakin using him correctly. I swear I've watched his soul wither and die here. Like in his commercial when he ironically says of itty-bitty-ballers, "this is my REAL passion." I believe it's true that the real passion he's had for ball has died for lack of being utilized, I've seen it come and go. I believe somewhere, it lies, waiting.

Anyway, YES, there's a really great chance he's gone, because we haven't utilized him to the level of his salary and we can no longer afford to keep someone who's not be utilized. We WON'T get actual value for him for the same reason. I'm with Dan when he pushes strongly for doing whatever it takes to unload useless DMC over an under-appreciated JV. I think people are very awake to the fact and likelihood at this point that it could be JV. Nobody is saying he's sacrosanct. He's just got the skillset, if given the opportunity to be the best center we can roster, and beyond the cold, hard realities of the cap, it makes no sense to think in terms of cutting bait with him, when you have other areas of extreme ineptitude to walk away from.

Late Friday night posting.
Never a good idea.
Help me OG Anunoby.
You're my only hope.
Happy weekend y'all.

[lewro]

see, this might be a talking point except that demarre carroll is terrible at basically every facet of basketball except for making an occasional open shot (and that's even very inconsistent) whereas valanciunas is good in areas and limited in others.

DanH's arguments for JV over carroll only make him biased in the sense that he's biased towards the team having good basketball players over poor ones.

I don't understand why you insist on antagonizing him all the time.

I insist because he's coddled. It not about JV over Demarre (preferably it's Demarre), it's that JV is sacrosanct from criticism and trade consideration by some. The odds of JV getting moved maybe slim but it's not 0 so it's not a half-brain idea to consider it (does half-brain sound antagonizing?).

If we think Demarre is shit, what are we willing to attach to him?
Or, if we think JV is great, hopefully we can get a great return for him.
Whatever your answer, I'd at least explore and discuss both options.

The article in question, iirc, considered trades for bebe, cojo and Demarre. I found it to be bias that JV was not considered. I still think it's bias not to consider him now. At this point I'd even say it's unrealistic not to consider it. Or dare I say, half-brained. 😉

[lewro]

I really don't think anyone would have absorbed Carroll's contract especially for a small time player like Siakam that lost his spot in the rotation by mid-season not to mention GS actually gave $3.5M. We would actually need to attach something of a fairly attractive value to absorb the toxic waste that is Carroll's contract but yeah I would absolutely take Bell over Siakam in a heartbeat. His defensive instincts are just clearly superior and being that Siakam doesn't project to be much more than an energy player give me the rim protector like Bell instead.

You're probably right re Carroll.
I do like siakam. His shotblocking probably isn't at bells level but all-round I think they might have similar potential impact. Have to see them play I think.

[lewro]

Considering Bell was drafted at #38, a trade for #39 wouldn't have worked.

Btw, I know at least one other poster has mentioned it, but what the heck are the Bulls doing selling early to mid second round picks as they go into a rebuild phase?!

Yes, I'm talking about before he was picked and looking at Sixers as a team with 4 2nd rd picks and the cap flex to absorb Carroll and perhaps not much of an FA destination. Not talking restrospectively.

[Ebonhawke]

Considering Bell was drafted at #38, a trade for #39 wouldn't have worked.

Btw, I know at least one other poster has mentioned it, but what the heck are the Bulls doing selling early to mid second round picks as they go into a rebuild phase?!

[JamesNaismith]

I look at Bell more as a siakam replacement. Package siakam and Carroll for #39 and take bell. I still like siakam but I thought the draft was best chance to move carroll. We will see...
Anigbogu could be great but I don't feel confident enough to trade for him. I feel confident that bell will have around as much impact as siakam and we shed Carroll in the process.

I really don't think anyone would have absorbed Carroll's contract especially for a small time player like Siakam that lost his spot in the rotation by mid-season not to mention GS actually gave $3.5M. We would actually need to attach something of a fairly attractive value to absorb the toxic waste that is Carroll's contract but yeah I would absolutely take Bell over Siakam in a heartbeat. His defensive instincts are just clearly superior and being that Siakam doesn't project to be much more than an energy player give me the rim protector like Bell instead.

[lewro]

Yeah I wouldn't go as so far to say I'm sad about Bell but we have a fairly similar player in OG. Both guys have some elite defensive skills with Bell being the better shotblocker and OG is better at getting steals but OG is also 2 years younger and actually the taller/longer player that also showed more shooting potential with substantially better 3pt shooting numbers even in an off year so no big deal from a talent standpoint and it would also be a bit redundant on a team like ours that needs to continue to add some shooting.

However I will say that was an underrated pick up for GS...Bell will help give Draymond and KD a breather on the defensive end which is just further terrible news for the league since that means an even fresher Green and KD.

I look at Bell more as a siakam replacement. Package siakam and Carroll for #39 and take bell. I still like siakam but I thought the draft was best chance to move carroll. We will see...
Anigbogu could be great but I don't feel confident enough to trade for him. I feel confident that bell will have around as much impact as siakam and we shed Carroll in the process.

[KHD]

Lol, it bugs you so much to even fathom losing JV that you're still, as you did 6 months ago, playing out every other machinations possible. Doesn't make me half-brain, it makes you bias. You're so enamoured by his offensive efficiency that you deny every other contextual factor: there are two ends of the court, fit, evolution of the game, his development, his intangibles like great loyalty but soft/leadership (especially to anchor a D), and the list goes on. Far outweighs his ts%, Rebs, screens. "Wait for the playoffs" tho, right!?

see, this might be a talking point except that demarre carroll is terrible at basically every facet of basketball except for making an occasional open shot (and that's even very inconsistent) whereas valanciunas is good in areas and limited in others.

DanH's arguments for JV over carroll only make him biased in the sense that he's biased towards the team having good basketball players over poor ones.

I don't understand why you insist on antagonizing him all the time.

[Deems]

LMA is an emotional bitch. If your asking out of San Antonio there's something wrong with you

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I have lost all my respect for LMA. I've never heard anyone wanting out of San Antonio in such a negative way; especially the accusations he has for the organization. Stephen A says LMA believes San Antonio has hampered his game and image. Get the hell outta here.

[rocwell]

LMA is an emotional bitch. If your asking out of San Antonio there's something wrong with you

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Not only he wants out, he accused Spurs of screwing up his game

[rocwell]

Never forget @MichaelRapaport's hilarious reaction to Porzingis getting drafted by the Knicks in 2015! pic.twitter.com/jeFlRcYtCG

— Ballislife.com (@Ballislife) June 22, 2017

[MACK11]

LMA is an emotional bitch. If your asking out of San Antonio there's something wrong with you

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