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Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

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  • Hotshot
    replied
    Ebonhawke wrote: View Post
    I think the acquisition of Tucker helped the Raptors refocus their defensive mindset and got them to play closer towards their potential. If you remember prior to the trade deadline, the Raptors were playing pathetic defense, and losing to teams they really should have beaten (Phoenix, Orlando twice etc). No Tucker, and the Raptors likely get embarrassed by the Bucks in the playoffs.
    I dont disagree with anything you said but clearly Masai intentions was to keep Tucker beyond that season ( not just a rental) and if he let go due to 'lack of budget' then he shouldnt have done that trade for two reasons.

    1) its true that you say that 50 + rankings is usually a shot in the datk but regardless having a draft pick is an asset that can be used elsewhere in a trade to sweeten the pot just like used on PJ Tucker (albeit someone that is staying for the long term).

    2) Maybe if they did not get Tucker, they would after all lose to the Bucks (debatable). This would probably create a much more drastic need for changes such as firing coach Casey and trading a few of the bigger assets to kick start a new era or a new "process". If we are essentially putting the same team with the same coach with the only caveat's less ISO's and shooting more 3's then we are not moving anywhere fast and in fact might just slowing down the inevitable demise.

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  • Ebonhawke
    replied
    Hotshot wrote: View Post
    If Tucker walks, it would be quite a fail for Masai considering he gave up 2 second round picks for 3 months of service.
    Not sure I would consider it a fail - both of the second round picks are expected to (hopefully) be in the 50's (this year the Suns picked #54), where it's essentially throwing a dart at the dartboard and getting lucky. Some of the camp guys signed after the draft concluded are likely to be as successful in the NBA as the guys drafted in the 50's.

    I think the acquisition of Tucker helped the Raptors refocus their defensive mindset and got them to play closer towards their potential. If you remember prior to the trade deadline, the Raptors were playing pathetic defense, and losing to teams they really should have beaten (Phoenix, Orlando twice etc). No Tucker, and the Raptors likely get embarrassed by the Bucks in the playoffs.

    Leave a comment:


  • JamesNaismith
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I'm so happy.
    I really have my doubts about anigbogu. He looked clueless in the games that I watched. Evans was a great get for the clips and they got thornwell too. The guy I'm sad about is bell.
    Yeah I wouldn't go as so far to say I'm sad about Bell but we have a fairly similar player in OG. Both guys have some elite defensive skills with Bell being the better shotblocker and OG is better at getting steals but OG is also 2 years younger and actually the taller/longer player that also showed more shooting potential with substantially better 3pt shooting numbers even in an off year so no big deal from a talent standpoint and it would also be a bit redundant on a team like ours that needs to continue to add some shooting.

    However I will say that was an underrated pick up for GS...Bell will help give Draymond and KD a breather on the defensive end which is just further terrible news for the league since that means an even fresher Green and KD.

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  • lewro
    replied
    JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
    Disappointed that we didn't try to grab one of Anigbogu or Evans for next to nothing but getting OG was a complete steal.
    Yeah, I'm so happy.
    I really have my doubts about anigbogu. He looked clueless in the games that I watched. Evans was a great get for the clips and they got thornwell too. The guy I'm sad about is bell.

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  • lewro
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    As I noted at the time, the contracts are basically identical and JV is infinitely more valuable to the team on the roster than Carroll, AND probably just as hard to move, so I just used Carroll as the example, though anyone with half a brain could see that JV can plug and play into the scenario.

    If they were going to use a pick to shed salary I think they'd have done so at the draft. Probably look to just let both secondary FA's (Tucker/Pat) walk now, unless some team decides they want JV or Carroll on merit (both of which I doubt). CoJo probably gone either way (he could be moved on merit, I think).
    Lol, it bugs you so much to even fathom losing JV that you're still, as you did 6 months ago, playing out every other machinations possible. Doesn't make me half-brain, it makes you bias. You're so enamoured by his offensive efficiency that you deny every other contextual factor: there are two ends of the court, fit, evolution of the game, his development, his intangibles like great loyalty but soft/leadership (especially to anchor a D), and the list goes on. Far outweighs his ts%, Rebs, screens. "Wait for the playoffs" tho, right!?

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  • Hotshot
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    If they were going to use a pick to shed salary I think they'd have done so at the draft. Probably look to just let both secondary FA's (Tucker/Pat) walk now, unless some team decides they want JV or Carroll on merit (both of which I doubt). CoJo probably gone either way (he could be moved on merit, I think).
    If Tucker walks, it would be quite a fail for Masai considering he gave up 2 second round picks for 3 months of service.

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  • JamesNaismith
    replied
    Disappointed that we didn't try to grab one of Anigbogu or Evans for next to nothing but getting OG was a complete steal.

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  • DanH
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    This is why I called you biased six months ago when you didn't include JV as part of the salary dump strategy in your raps hq article. I agree with you that it should be Demarre. At most I would have attached siakam but that would have been to the Sixers for bell at 39. That didn't happen. JV now moves to the #1 target imo. Keep in mind, JV is a Colangelo guy. Carroll was masai's top free agent. Doesn't look good to attach an asset to dump, especially when his position is hard to replace. Better to hope he has some measure of return to form or that for some inconceivable reason someone takes him with cojo and bebe. One way or the other, we're taking a loss.
    As I noted at the time, the contracts are basically identical and JV is infinitely more valuable to the team on the roster than Carroll, AND probably just as hard to move, so I just used Carroll as the example, though anyone with half a brain could see that JV can plug and play into the scenario.

    If they were going to use a pick to shed salary I think they'd have done so at the draft. Probably look to just let both secondary FA's (Tucker/Pat) walk now, unless some team decides they want JV or Carroll on merit (both of which I doubt). CoJo probably gone either way (he could be moved on merit, I think).

    Leave a comment:


  • Ebonhawke
    replied
    So.. let the debate in 2018 over drafting Tadas Sedekerskis vs Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (currently listed 27 and 28 on DX's 2018 mock draft) begin. Either pick could force Charles Barkley to not talk about the Raptors any more on TV because he can't pronounce any of the team members' last names!

    I'll also put in a vote for the Raptors to PLEASE not draft Shake Milton out of SMU (listed at #24), simply because Matt Devlin would break records for the number of irritating catch phrases that he'd coin for him during PBP.

    Leave a comment:


  • lewro
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    Yeah I hear you. I just think if would have used the pick to dump Carroll now, in two years time whatever happiness/benefits the fans/team would have gotten from that move will be less than what they would get from having (a healthy) OG on the roster.
    If they traded og to dump Carroll... I'm jambing qtips in my ear until that thought leaves my brain.

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  • lewro
    replied
    Mess wrote: View Post
    Apparently the Raptors used spent $1M in the PJ Tucker trade so they only had $2.5M left. ($3.5M is the max that a team can spend per season - and that's going up in the next CBA). GS probably used all $3.5M of it to buy Chicago's 2nd round pick.

    Also, fuck Chicago. Them wanting money over talent isn't really a surprise though.
    GSW getting bell, Boucher and McCaw without a pick is ninja.

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  • lewro
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but there's a reality that the team is not going to pay crazy amounts of luxury tax. I'd have no issue if they did, that would be great, but they simply will not go deep into the tax. It's not happening. So it will come down to a choice - do you just re-sign Lowry and Ibaka, and shed a small amount of salary (probably CoJo - or possibly no one at all if the market is suppressed enough for those two) to keep the tax bill reasonable, or do you find a way to drop one of JV/Carroll and use that money to keep Tucker as well?
    This is why I called you biased six months ago when you didn't include JV as part of the salary dump strategy in your raps hq article. I agree with you that it should be Demarre. At most I would have attached siakam but that would have been to the Sixers for bell at 39. That didn't happen. JV now moves to the #1 target imo. Keep in mind, JV is a Colangelo guy. Carroll was masai's top free agent. Doesn't look good to attach an asset to dump, especially when his position is hard to replace. Better to hope he has some measure of return to form or that for some inconceivable reason someone takes him with cojo and bebe. One way or the other, we're taking a loss.

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  • Mess
    replied
    ceez wrote: View Post
    Was really hoping Masai would buy a second round pick and take Semi. Typical MU drafts are boring af tho.
    Apparently the Raptors used spent $1M in the PJ Tucker trade so they only had $2.5M left. ($3.5M is the max that a team can spend per season - and that's going up in the next CBA). GS probably used all $3.5M of it to buy Chicago's 2nd round pick.

    Also, fuck Chicago. Them wanting money over talent isn't really a surprise though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mess
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but there's a reality that the team is not going to pay crazy amounts of luxury tax. I'd have no issue if they did, that would be great, but they simply will not go deep into the tax. It's not happening. So it will come down to a choice - do you just re-sign Lowry and Ibaka, and shed a small amount of salary (probably CoJo - or possibly no one at all if the market is suppressed enough for those two) to keep the tax bill reasonable, or do you find a way to drop one of JV/Carroll and use that money to keep Tucker as well?
    Yeah I hear you. I just think if would have used the pick to dump Carroll now, in two years time whatever happiness/benefits the fans/team would have gotten from that move will be less than what they would get from having (a healthy) OG on the roster.

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  • jimmie
    replied
    KHD wrote: View Post
    we'll see how aggressive masai is in the trade market over the next little while.

    Personally, i would hope that Masai is smart enough to realize, even with the small sample size after the ibaka trade, that running out the same team minus a few key role players isn't anywhere near good enough. And there's limited room for improvement over a 5 year lowry contract if you lock in to demar/lowry/ibaka.

    I don't know what the move is, but i figure he's got to know that he needs to do more than just get tax relief if he really wants to commit to this core.
    Am I correct in thinking that the luxury tax isn't calculated until the end of the season? In other words, Masai has until next April to lower the impact? I'm also curious as to what insight DanH has re certainty that they will only pay so much tax.

    Masai probably has a decent feel for what's going to happen with Lowry and Ibaka and Tucker. If Lowry leaves, he won't sign Ibaka, and likely not Tucker. No cap problem. Can still trade JV and or Carroll if a deal arises. If Lowry signs, he likely also signs Ibaka and Tucker, and yes, the tax bill will be enormous. But there's still the option to evaluate up to the trade deadline and either move JV/Carroll (albeit likely with assets attached) or blow it all up if it's not working.

    I don't see a rush or impetus to shed cap right now, unless I'm missing something?

    Leave a comment:

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