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Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    All this stuff about upside is overrated. I don't take much stock in age, BBIQ. The kid could be 18 but, really doesn't matter if he doesn't have the work ethic. BBIQ is also something that can be learned if your willing to put in the work. All those reasons are exactly why Norm Powell fell.

    Give me a guy with tools you can't teach. Athleticism, work ethic, and length. I'm good with that. Especially in the 20's.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Norm also fell bc he couldn't shoot and he had guys like lavine and Anderson ahead of him. You're right, his work ethic has been huge.
    I like IQ a lot bc it's a solid foundation to build on and it's something that I think translates and can be a good predictor. I don't think it's as easy to overcome as you do; plenty of guys never get it but plenty do too. Understanding the game at a high level and then making those read/reacts at NBA pace is valuable and not everyone can do it/do it at the same level.
    Athleticism can be seductive but also shallow. Like I'm intrigued by anigbogu but not sure he will ever "get it". Obviously athleticism is important in sports but so is a brain imo.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Not sure how we can make a blanket statement that CoJo doesn't have a ton of trade value. I was thinking along the lines of the George Hill to Indiana trade that netted the Kawhi pick (15th overall). Spurs only sent Hill and got back 15th. CoJo has pretty comparable raw stats as Hill did at the time, and Hill was also in the last year of his contract - and the receiving team would have Bird rights.

      CoJo has built himself into an NBA rotation player, at least equivalent to a mid-late first rounder, so the idea here is that CoJo + Raps 23rd is equivalent to 2 first round picks. It's a much better deal for receiving team than the Hill deal. Only caveat is that the market for PGs is probably more saturated than it was back then, but still, Joseph is now a proven player on a playoff team.
      Well, the good news is that I think we'd have a good target in anunoby. The bad news is I don't think the teams in that range would pull the trigger bc I also don't think cojo has that much value. 4 yrs of control over a player (at least) for around the same money as 1yr of cojo (and he's a bargain) with arguably more upside and future trade value.
      Every draft is different and times have changed. Last yr it took 13 and 28 to move up 5 spots and imo that was a cheap deal bc the kings are dumb. The yr prior (?) Charlotte refused to trade the Kaminsky pick for a boat load of picks. The truth is probably somewhere in between but imo the reality is that teams value their picks, especially lottery picks. Cojo would not do it for me.

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      • It's also tough to trade cojo on draft night without knowing if Lowry resigns or not.

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        • http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news...71iaxhk0bklxob

          Saw this on Reddit. Thought I'd post it bc there's been some talk re:semi. I'm a big vecenie fan. I think he gets this right.

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          • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
            It's also tough to trade cojo on draft night without knowing if Lowry resigns or not.
            I might rather blow it up without Lowry. I don't think cojo is much above replacement but he's so cheap so I think $/production he's good value. We'd be Charlotte or the bulls without Lowry imo.

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            • lewro wrote: View Post
              http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news...71iaxhk0bklxob

              Saw this on Reddit. Thought I'd post it bc there's been some talk re:semi. I'm a big vecenie fan. I think he gets this right.
              Read this a couple days ago. Was going to post it but, figured you guys were getting tired of me posting about Semi LOL. I like Vecenie as well.
              @Chr1st1anL

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              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                It's also tough to trade cojo on draft night without knowing if Lowry resigns or not.
                Yeah, but if Lowry leaves, you just tear it down anyway. So no real risk there, as his value is probably limited in terms of return since he's a rental.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • Really don't think Masai blows it up. Even if Lowry leaves. I think he would give Deebo a chance with a team totally built to cover up his weakness. If the raps didn't go 15-7 without Lowry I would think differently.
                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • Good read covers a lot of topics in regards to the draft

                    https://theringer.com/2017-nba-draft...son-667bd53c32

                    The Charles Barkley Tweener Disciples
                    Semi Ojeleye, SMU
                    Ojeleye stands 6-foot-7 and 241 pounds with less than 6 percent body fat. If you aren’t great at deciphering those numbers, allow me to help: They mean that he’s built like a Greek god who could probably get drafted as an NFL tight end, even if he hasn’t played a single snap of football in his life. Ojeleye has a tremendous work ethic and can guard at least four positions, and after deciding to transfer to SMU in 2014 because he barely saw the court during his first two seasons at Duke, he expanded his offensive game and became a reliable and versatile scorer.
                    Speaking of which: Isn’t it kinda interesting how “tweener” used to be a degrading term used by scouts to describe a guy who didn’t have a natural position and would always feel out of place on the court, yet now it’s a term of endearment that’s synonymous with versatility? Ten years ago Ojeleye would have been dismissed as someone too short to play power forward and not skilled enough to play small forward. Now, though, scouts and fans have the smarts to see him for who he is: a damn good basketball player who could help any NBA roster in a variety of ways. I’m not sure what the best use of Ojeleye will be, although I suspect his destiny is to be a 3-and-D guy. I just know that if I were a general manager, I’d do what I could to get him on my team and then figure the rest out later.
                    Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Fri May 26, 2017, 03:23 PM.
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      Really don't think Masai blows it up. Even if Lowry leaves. I think he would give Deebo a chance with a team totally built to cover up his weakness. If the raps didn't go 15-7 without Lowry I would think differently.
                      What does a team that's built to cover up DeMar's weaknesses look like, though? And what is the playoff ceiling of that team? DD's weaknesses are: (1) no 3, (2) poor D & (3) not a great facilitator. I would suspect you need 4 guys who can stretch the floor, but finding a legit 5 who can also protect the rim and rebound at a high rate doesn't really exist in the NBA (Ibaka is probably the closest to that definition). And even if the Raps loaded up on shooters, DeMar doesn't really have the same kind of passing skill and vision to find the open man like a James Harden.

                      Sure, you could get by in the regular season against inferior competition and probably gain the 4-8th seed. But again, what is the playoff ceiling of a Derozan-led team? DeMar simply has to commit to improve his 3 and his D, as a starting point for any rebuild around him. If not, you're knowingly building your house on a shaky foundation.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        Not sure how we can make a blanket statement that CoJo doesn't have a ton of trade value. I was thinking along the lines of the George Hill to Indiana trade that netted the Kawhi pick (15th overall). Spurs only sent Hill and got back 15th. CoJo has pretty comparable raw stats as Hill did at the time, and Hill was also in the last year of his contract - and the receiving team would have Bird rights.

                        CoJo has built himself into an NBA rotation player, at least equivalent to a mid-late first rounder, so the idea here is that CoJo + Raps 23rd is equivalent to 2 first round picks. It's a much better deal for receiving team than the Hill deal. Only caveat is that the market for PGs is probably more saturated than it was back then, but still, Joseph is now a proven player on a playoff team.
                        Hill was an RFA coming off of a 59% true shooting season. Joseph is a UFA coming off a 52% season with an 11.5 PER in the playoffs.

                        Joseph has marginal value at best. But if Masai can use him to move up, that would be amazing. Heck I think pretty much anyone on our roster should be available if we have a particular target in mind.

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                        • No prospect names yet, but the Raptors just announced four more workout dates:




                          I would guess these won't be the last ones, but nice to know when we can expect the next groups/players to come through.
                          http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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                          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                            Hill was an RFA coming off of a 59% true shooting season. Joseph is a UFA coming off a 52% season with an 11.5 PER in the playoffs.

                            Joseph has marginal value at best. But if Masai can use him to move up, that would be amazing. Heck I think pretty much anyone on our roster should be available if we have a particular target in mind.
                            Above and beyond anything else, the RFA/UFA distinction makes all the difference.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                              What do you guys think of DJ Wilson from Michigan? He played the wing in high school. A bit old since he red-shirted a year, but looks like he's figured things out. Maybe too soft to play the 4 full-time, but can stretch things and has athleticism. More importantly, he has legit length and height. Thoughts?
                              good question. he kinda snuck up on me and hes been in the back of my mind recently. i need to look into him more as i did not see michigan play this yr. some guys are mocked all over the place (depending on where you look) but he seems to be somewhat consistently projected in the late 20's. I do like the combination of his physical tools, skills and possible upside/sleeper aspects that ive seen of him in articles/videos but generally im a little leery when a player's stock rises greatly due to a breakout performance in the tourney (malachi richardson is a recent example). i think this is a good question bc id also like to know more and curious if he will get a workout in town?

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                              • Can I ask why Swanigan has fallen off? I'm seeing him projected as a 2nd rounder now. TBH, he's still a great pick IMO.
                                Axel wrote:
                                Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                                Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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