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Everything 2016/17 NBA Draft Thread aka Thank Nation 2.0

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  • golden wrote: View Post
    Given the Masai's culture reset comments and Casey's desire to add shooting, picking NBA-ready Siakam over Skal looks even worse today. Masai & Casey have to take a mulligan on that one.
    My initial reaction to the siakam pick was who? And my second reaction was Josh Huestis contract. Never thought NBA ready. Sully was supposed to be our guy with Pat off the bench. I thought siakam was a dleague project and when he finally got there, he killed it.
    It's still early. I like skal but he's a bit of a puss.

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    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
      Do you guys think Massai will draft the best player available or go for need? At 23 I'm doubtful that there will be anyone that really stands out and it seems we lack the assets to move up in the draft.

      What is the priority as far as need for this team right now (besides signing our free agents, I mean)? Is it 3pt shooting, a big, athletic wing defender...?
      It's fairly early in the draft process so probably shouldn't make too much of things yet but it would appear that we're not looking at BPA because so far (again I'm saying we can't make too much of it yet) because of the notable names in our draft range for the most part they have been shooting SF/PFs (powerforwards for the most part) which obviously would be an attempt to plug a hole that losing Patterson will cause.

      I really hate this way of drafting that we've done over the past few years which is to use the draft as a means to plug holes in the roster when in reality Casey doesn't use rookies much (pending an injury to someone ahead of them in the rotation) and what they contribute in their 1st year won't make or break us against CLE anyways. Draft picks should be made with the FUTURE in mind and what we think we want our team to look like in 4-5 years when these present day rookies will really start coming into their own which is why I continue to side on drafting high upside players and develop them and if there was ever a draft in recent years to do so, it's this one!

      I will be somewhat disappointed but at the same time happy with us drafting players like Swanigan, Semi or Evans because I like each player but again I want more upside like Bolden, Anigbogu etc. But if we take someone like Leaf, Lydon, Peters, Hart....I'm just done with this team. I know I throw crap out like that with us keeping Casey, Lowry etc but if we make a pick like that in a super deep draft like this then there really is no hope for this team now or in the future. I can deal with another couple of years of Fool's Gold as long as there is potential for better moving forward but if we make a short sighted decision again and doom ourselves to more of the same, then I just can't put myself through more decades of disappointment (although will remain a Powell fan lol).

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      • LJ2 wrote: View Post
        Do you guys think Massai will draft the best player available or go for need? At 23 I'm doubtful that there will be anyone that really stands out and it seems we lack the assets to move up in the draft.

        What is the priority as far as need for this team right now (besides signing our free agents, I mean)? Is it 3pt shooting, a big, athletic wing defender...?
        I would say 3 point shooting is at the top of the list. Than you have better play makers. The problem is the best passer in our range are also defensive liabilities. Masai has yet to draft a player like that in his Raptors tenure.

        If I had to put money I would say it comes down to Semi/Brooks. Semi has the would african thing going for him and some serious 3-D potential. Brooks was the best passing forward in NCAA and has the Canadian thing going for him. Not as much of a liability on D as Leaf/Lydon. Also he was Pac-12 player of year. Yak(won player of the year last year), Powell and Wright all played in the Pac-12. Our front office obvious value the competition in this conference.

        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        @Chr1st1anL

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        • lewro wrote: View Post
          Not only does he sound flawless, it sounds like masai has already drafted him.
          Jvs footspeed has decreased and I'm not sure his IQ has gone up but it's still lacking and doesn't look like it will improve to where he needs to be (gasol-ish). Looks like we'd have an easier time getting his footspeed back imo.
          So physical traits are innate but mental ones are not and it's completely taught/learned? Watching tape doesn't mean that you can perform at game speed and the game gets faster in the NBA. The guy has been watching tape for 4 yrs in college.
          The academic argument is weak. It's certainly a positive but it's not a predictor. Tross was an excellent student but he is still a space cadet at times and has never put his amazing physical gifts and shooting stroke together to reach his 3&d potential and he's better than semi.
          Not too sure if Ross won academic rewards for his grades like Semi did this past year. Also Ross has never been described to having a relentless work ethic like Semi has. You can't teach foot speed. You can teach a player to know where to be.

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          @Chr1st1anL

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          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            Not too sure if Ross won academic rewards for his grades like Semi did this past year. Also Ross has never been described to having a relentless work ethic like Semi has. You can't teach foot speed. You can teach a player to know where to be.

            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
            I mean with a good work ethic you could improve your feet speed very quickly, it would be harder to improve your IQ tbh. Its not like your foot speed is determined at birth. I would honestly like Semi a lot more if you told me he was a decent defender in college (which is what stats indicate) but his role combined with athleticism suggest he could develop into a reliable 3&D player. Its hard to believe that the guy is a great (PJ Tucker level) defender but just couldn't show it off because he didn't want to get fouls.

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            • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
              I mean with a good work ethic you could improve your feet speed very quickly, it would be harder to improve your IQ tbh. Its not like your foot speed is determined at birth. I would honestly like Semi a lot more if you told me he was a decent defender in college (which is what stats indicate) but his role combined with athleticism suggest he could develop into a reliable 3&D player. Its hard to believe that the guy is a great (PJ Tucker level) defender but just couldn't show it off because he didn't want to get fouls.
              This is all I'm saying. I'm not saying Semi is a poor DeRozan like defender/bad defender....he just isn't Tucker level. As much as a team may need his scoring I'm sure there are plenty of times in the course of a season they would also need him to lockdown a man if he had the ability to do so. ie/ You see this with LeBron....as we all know LBJ carries not only the scoring load as the leading scorer on each team he's been on but also the additional workload of creating for everyone else BUT when the situation calls for it, he will lockdown a player for different stretches of a game. You'll see other players like Paul George do the same thing.

              No one is expecting to see Semi be at Kawhi level both as a lockdown defender and all game consistency. But if he had the ability to defend THAT well as PJ Tucker certainly there would have at least been a handful of examples when he did so. No great defender in a tight game says "oh I'll just kinda defend down the stretch because I have to conserve myself" lol no...they go and attack their man defensively because they want the ball back and they want to close out a win. Semi doesn't do that (period). He's not bad defender, from everything I seen he does a decent job where he's not a total liability but PJ Tucker like he is not, there's no 2 ways about it.

              Just to appease Chr1s1anL I will give the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he can get there but right now, he's not there. But I do like Ojeleye and can at least agree that his upside is being like Crowder (who isn't at Tucker's level defensively either imo) but he is still a notch up from Semi defensively as well but at least that's the potential....why I like Semi is offensively I would say he is like Crowder already.

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              • golden wrote: View Post
                Given the Masai's culture reset comments and Casey's desire to add shooting, picking NBA-ready Siakam over Skal looks even worse today. Masai & Casey have to take a mulligan on that one.
                This is strange thinking to me. Skal looked awfully talented as a rook, but as an agent of positive cultural change I wouldn't exactly bet on him. He's got a good stroke from behind the arc, but Siakim showed that his summer-3 wasn't far off.

                Bottomline, Pascal looks like a legit player and teammate, often a man-amongst-boys at the d-league level, and that aint bad at 27.

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                • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  Not too sure if Ross won academic rewards for his grades like Semi did this past year. Also Ross has never been described to having a relentless work ethic like Semi has. You can't teach foot speed. You can teach a player to know where to be.

                  Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                  Iirc Ross had a GPA of 3.8. certainly his players' tribune letter is a testament to his intelligence. I did question his work ethic in the early yrs but I did read positive reports as he matured. He did improve but still had lapses and inconsistencies.
                  Marc gasol was dpoy based mostly on IQ. You can draw up X's and O's but making the read in-game is different. I know bc I struggled with it in football even tho I got good grades.
                  There are 10 yr olds doing PhD in physics. Do you think that happened bc they watched a lot of videotape? I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson but I'm not Doogie Howser.

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                  • lewro wrote: View Post
                    Iirc Ross had a GPA of 3.8. certainly his players' tribune letter is a testament to his intelligence. I did question his work ethic in the early yrs but I did read positive reports as he matured. He did improve but still had lapses and inconsistencies.
                    Marc gasol was dpoy based mostly on IQ. You can draw up X's and O's but making the read in-game is different. I know bc I struggled with it in football even tho I got good grades.
                    There are 10 yr olds doing PhD in physics. Do you think that happened bc they watched a lot of videotape? I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson but I'm not Doogie Howser.
                    Not to mention Jeremy Lin would make LeBron James (never attended college) look like Bruno if all it took was academic knowledge to improve bball IQ.

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                    • lewro wrote: View Post
                      Iirc Ross had a GPA of 3.8. certainly his players' tribune letter is a testament to his intelligence. I did question his work ethic in the early yrs but I did read positive reports as he matured. He did improve but still had lapses and inconsistencies.
                      Marc gasol was dpoy based mostly on IQ. You can draw up X's and O's but making the read in-game is different. I know bc I struggled with it in football even tho I got good grades.
                      There are 10 yr olds doing PhD in physics. Do you think that happened bc they watched a lot of videotape? I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson but I'm not Doogie Howser.
                      I dont understand how a PHD relates at all with basketball. Ross has a poor work ethic it's the only thing that explains his career. With all the tools his been blessed with. Like I said it does help if you understand where suppose to be in your defensive scheme. When combine that with real quick feet than you got something special. All Ball IQ critics on Semi are all on the offensive end. Which I'm not wprried about because were not going to ask much from him on that side.

                      Lets just agree to disagree you don't think he is worthy of the 23rd pick but, in this new NBA I think he is worthy of the pick.

                      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        I dont understand how a PHD relates at all with basketball. Ross has a poor work ethic it's the only thing that explains his career. With all the tools his been blessed with. Like I said it does help if you understand where suppose to be in your defensive scheme. When combine that with real quick feet than you got something special. All Ball IQ critics on Semi are all on the offensive end. Which I'm not wprried about because were not going to ask much from him on that side.

                        Lets just agree to disagree you don't think he is worthy of the 23rd pick but, in this new NBA I think he is worthy of the pick.

                        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                        How does semi's academic achievement relate to bball? How is intelligence strictly learned but athleticism is strictly innate?
                        Semi's mental lapses are only on offense? There's legit questions about his focus, engagement and instincts on D. Even lydon, (whose no beast) avg 2-3x more blocks and steals (also playing zone) in a much more difficult conference and 2 yrs younger.
                        Just bc semi looks like draymond doesn't mean he is or is not. There are arguments on both sides and plenty of other players to consider.
                        Ok, we can agree to disagree and you may be right. I do like semi but he's not a lock for me.

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          I dont understand how a PHD relates at all with basketball. Ross has a poor work ethic it's the only thing that explains his career. With all the tools his been blessed with. Like I said it does help if you understand where suppose to be in your defensive scheme. When combine that with real quick feet than you got something special. All Ball IQ critics on Semi are all on the offensive end. Which I'm not wprried about because were not going to ask much from him on that side.

                          Lets just agree to disagree you don't think he is worthy of the 23rd pick but, in this new NBA I think he is worthy of the pick.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          Curious why you think Ross had a bad work ethic. Seems like he came into training camp in good shape, he remade his body several times and generally imporved at a skill. I would question why he chose to work on handles, mid range, etc instead of becoming a lethal off ball player like Klay, Korver, Reddick, etc. (I assume some of it has to do with advise from the organization too) but it never seemed like he sat around all summer. I think too many people wanted him to become DeRozan with a 3 pt shot instead of the best off ball scorer in the league, which hurt his development more than anything.

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                          • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                            Not to mention Jeremy Lin would make LeBron James (never attended college) look like Bruno if all it took was academic knowledge to improve bball IQ.
                            Really? Are you sure about that? LeBron has shown signs of being a genius. How many players can explain plays they made in their 2nd/3rd season this deep into their careers? That's not b-ball IQ, that's just having a generally high IQ.

                            There are multiple examples that suggest he has photographic memory. Plus, no fool could pull off what LeBron has done off the court. The business moves, the scholarship programs... Lin is a smart dude, but you are severely in the wrong assuming that LeBron doesn't have a high IQ off and on the court.

                            That said, genius, or just having a high IQ isn't uniform. Some people will be able to process things in a spacial field. Others may grasp physics equations strictly on paper. We all have that really smart friend who has little to no social skills. That's because being smart doesn't mean that you are really smart at everything. This is why academic scoring has no relevance in assessing how someone will succeed in a real-life environment without additional sources of references.

                            That's why tape is important. Why interviews are important. Why part of testing a player has to include teaching them something new and seeing how quickly they pick it up. If a player knows in theory what they're doing wrong, but can't quickly adjust, who cares what scores they get in college/university?

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                            • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                              I mean with a good work ethic you could improve your feet speed very quickly, it would be harder to improve your IQ tbh. Its not like your foot speed is determined at birth. I would honestly like Semi a lot more if you told me he was a decent defender in college (which is what stats indicate) but his role combined with athleticism suggest he could develop into a reliable 3&D player. Its hard to believe that the guy is a great (PJ Tucker level) defender but just couldn't show it off because he didn't want to get fouls.
                              I never said he was PJ like defender. All my comparisons with him has been with Jae Crowder. I'm not the one who brought up the PJ comp. Listen to recent rr podcast they go into detail on how Semi was being used at SMU.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • lewro wrote: View Post
                                How does semi's academic achievement relate to bball? How is intelligence strictly learned but athleticism is strictly innate?
                                Semi's mental lapses are only on offense? There's legit questions about his focus, engagement and instincts on D. Even lydon, (whose no beast) avg 2-3x more blocks and steals (also playing zone) in a much more difficult conference and 2 yrs younger.
                                Just bc semi looks like draymond doesn't mean he is or is not. There are arguments on both sides and plenty of other players to consider.
                                Ok, we can agree to disagree and you may be right. I do like semi but he's not a lock for me.
                                When did I say he was a lock? I just said if I had to put my money on who raps would pick I would go with Semi/Brooks. I'm basing that off Masai's draft history since his been here.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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