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How do we fix our defense?

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  • DanH
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I would say playing Bebe a couple more minutes would help the D a little more

    http://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?...layerID=203512
    Not as much as those stats show, unless we can figure a way for the opposition to play their bench players more minutes too.

    Still, the bench defence has been solid and is not the issue.

    Looking at the top lineups, there are 5 that have played at least 50 minutes so far. Of those:

    Three have solid to great defensive ratings (between 97 and 104). Two of those have Valanciunas in them, including the 97 DRTG lineup.

    Problem is, the other two lineups have DRTG's of 109 and 113. The 109 is the Nogueira-anchored DD plus bench lineup. The 113 is the starting lineup. They are the fourth and first most played lineups on the team.

    We have to fix the starting lineup. All the rest of our lineups wash out between poor and great. Heck, just take out the minutes and DRTG of the standard starting lineup and the team DRTG drops to 103.8, which would rank 13th.

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  • A.I
    replied
    Lupe wrote: View Post
    It's really a big problem if Carroll isn't going to be a plus defender. Not sure what the hell he's doing on the team in that case.
    Taking Powell's minutes.

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  • Lupe
    replied
    It's really a big problem if Carroll isn't going to be a plus defender. Not sure what the hell he's doing on the team in that case.

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    I would say playing Bebe a couple more minutes would help the D a little more

    http://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?...layerID=203512

    Leave a comment:


  • lewro
    replied
    I've made criticism of Carroll's D in the forum recently. Touched on what you are saying. He balances out to around a zero so it could be improved for sure but not the biggest problem imo. Have fun!

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  • lewro
    replied
    Ok guys, i gotta do some living for a few minutes today. D is great!

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  • Axel
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Carroll has struggled in man D. That is what he was signed for. Although he competes there, he just isn't close to the level he was at in Atlanta. It's entirely possible it's related to physical issues, but that doesn't change his performance. He can't keep in front of his man near as well as he needs to, especially since he often guards the other team's best wing.

    His team D can be alarmingly bad...he's often looking for steals...and he often gets caught standing still as his man cuts behind him. He can be pretty lost positionally off the ball in general. He can also be good at times as at least when he's not ball watching he's quite aggressive, but sometimes there he can be aggressive to a fault.
    Carroll's D reminds me a bit of Lowry, too many gambles and not enough consistent stay in front of your man D and sometimes just not paying attention. It's ok for Lowry because of what he does on offence but Carroll's offence is pretty bad and he needs his D to be better to be worth the minutes he's been getting. I'd really like to see Powell leapfrog Carroll in the rotation.

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Stats don't support your arguments, neither does my eye.
    DC is part of the two best D lineups. He's not as advertised but he's not a black hole. He's scrapping by. 2 more years, into his 30s, at $30m, is not ideal for our needs imo. JV is statistically the worst starting defender and has the most responsibility. Siakam has had ups and downs. He's just not ready to be a key contributor for a #2 seed. No shame there, good pick. Bebe has been great defensively for a dleaguer. Just depends on the matchup and he needs to learn how to rebound. Positioning may come but I'm not convinced the weight will.
    We're passable if we want to have a chance to get back to the ecf and lose with some ease. Several things to improve if we have a higher goal. I think we should. Tough decisions to make with some growing pains and risk imo. Likely Masai holds pat until the summer. I'd be a little more opportunistic but I'm playing with monopoly money and enjoying making it rain in my mind!
    Then the stats and your eye test are flawed. Maybe you're suffering from confirmation bias. BTW, defensive metrics are all terrible. None of them pass the sniff test. All you have to do is look at rankings to see that they're obviously too flawed to trust.

    Carroll has struggled in man D. That is what he was signed for. Although he competes there, he just isn't close to the level he was at in Atlanta. It's entirely possible it's related to physical issues, but that doesn't change his performance. He can't keep in front of his man near as well as he needs to, especially since he often guards the other team's best wing.

    His team D can be alarmingly bad...he's often looking for steals...and he often gets caught standing still as his man cuts behind him. He can be pretty lost positionally off the ball in general. He can also be good at times as at least when he's not ball watching he's quite aggressive, but sometimes there he can be aggressive to a fault. The other night against Philly he sprinted at Embiid at the 3 pt line, who pump faked, drove and dished for an easy bucket. Carroll decided to leak out rather than try to close out under control...you're not going to block Embiid's shot if you're Carroll, and leaking out in that scenario is a horrible gamble. That's a wing defender flying by a big man at the 3pt line and taking himself out of the play. Aggressive? Sure. One of the worst defensive plays we've seen by a Raptor so far this season? Probably.

    And he isn't rebounding well either, so he's not helping to complete defensive possessions.

    The most generous I can be about Carroll is to say he's been mediocre defensively, but he's been inconsistent.
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Stats don't support your arguments, neither does my eye.
    DC is part of the two best D lineups. He's not as advertised but he's not a black hole. He's scrapping by. 2 more years, into his 30s, at $30m, is not ideal for our needs imo. JV is statistically the worst starting defender and has the most responsibility. Siakam has had ups and downs. He's just not ready to be a key contributor for a #2 seed. No shame there, good pick. Bebe has been great defensively for a dleaguer. Just depends on the matchup and he needs to learn how to rebound. Positioning may come but I'm not convinced the weight will.
    We're passable if we want to have a chance to get back to the ecf and lose with some ease. Several things to improve if we have a higher goal. I think we should. Tough decisions to make with some growing pains and risk imo. Likely Masai holds pat until the summer. I'd be a little more opportunistic but I'm playing with monopoly money and enjoying making it rain in my mind!

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • lewro
    replied
    Edit:. DD is also terrible on D in the starting lineup. Didn't mean to omit him.

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  • lewro
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You're forgetting that DC has been bad too. So really, JV is supposedly responsible for not being able to hold a D together when pretty much none of the other 4 guys are giving good value on that end, except at times Lowry when he gives the effort (which he cant consistently due to offensive load). And still if you just swap out Siakam for Pat (the actual weakest link in our starting unit), the netrtg of that lineup is phenomenal and they're good on both ends. Carroll may be rounding into shape, but his D is still behind what we need from him, especially with the rookie issues at PF.

    Why is our bench better? Well it's usually Pat, Cojo, Ross out there and they really hold the D together, and throw in Powell when he gets to play. Our perimeter D and general level of responsibility on that end skyrocket with our bench guys. Bebe can be aggressive chasing blocks as well (he frankly does little else very well on D). Lowry has a lighter load on both ends with Cojo in as well so he can be more aggressive defensively in those lineups.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Stats don't support your arguments, neither does my eye.
    DC is part of the two best D lineups. He's not as advertised but he's not a black hole. He's scrapping by. 2 more years, into his 30s, at $30m, is not ideal for our needs imo. JV is statistically the worst starting defender and has the most responsibility. Siakam has had ups and downs. He's just not ready to be a key contributor for a #2 seed. No shame there, good pick. Bebe has been great defensively for a dleaguer. Just depends on the matchup and he needs to learn how to rebound. Positioning may come but I'm not convinced the weight will.
    We're passable if we want to have a chance to get back to the ecf and lose with some ease. Several things to improve if we have a higher goal. I think we should. Tough decisions to make with some growing pains and risk imo. Likely Masai holds pat until the summer. I'd be a little more opportunistic but I'm playing with monopoly money and enjoying making it rain in my mind!

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Our 2nd and 3rd most used lineups have DRtg below 100. DD, jv, siakam are struggling on D. We're playing jv and DD heavy mins. It's partially about roster and balance imo.
    You're forgetting that DC has been bad too. So really, JV is supposedly responsible for not being able to hold a D together when pretty much none of the other 4 guys are giving good value on that end, except at times Lowry when he gives the effort (which he cant consistently due to offensive load). And still if you just swap out Siakam for Pat (the actual weakest link in our starting unit), the netrtg of that lineup is phenomenal and they're good on both ends. Carroll may be rounding into shape, but his D is still behind what we need from him, especially with the rookie issues at PF.

    Why is our bench better? Well it's usually Pat, Cojo, Ross out there and they really hold the D together, and throw in Powell when he gets to play. Our perimeter D and general level of responsibility on that end skyrocket with our bench guys. Bebe can be aggressive chasing blocks as well (he frankly does little else very well on D). Lowry has a lighter load on both ends with Cojo in as well so he can be more aggressive defensively in those lineups.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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  • lewro
    replied
    Rebounding is an issue for sure.
    Pat + starters has a better DRtg (less than 100) by 15 points than siakam. Same perimeter defenders. Personnel matters. Scheme, effort, etc. All important

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  • KHD
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Our 2nd and 3rd most used lineups have DRtg below 100. DD, jv, siakam are struggling on D. We're playing jv and DD heavy mins. It's partially about roster and balance imo.
    i don't see how that's different from what i'm saying.

    I mean, if you make a massive trade and replace Derozan and JV with an elite perimeter defender and a shot-blocking center then ok, there's a trade that has a chance to make them good on D.

    but under the assumption that we're locked in with Demar/Lowry, no, i don't think that you can "fix" the defence with a single trade, because the whole system is failing simply because nobody is keeping guys from walking into the paint.

    This total apathy on the perimeter is the reason our defence sucks, and it's also a big reason we don't get any D-rebounds anymore. Nobody is ever in position because everyone is always scrambling.
    Last edited by KHD; Sat Dec 17th, 2016, 10:54 AM.

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  • lewro
    replied
    KHD wrote: View Post
    there isn't a trade that's going to make our defence so much better that it becomes our strength, because there's something wrong at the very basic level: nobody on this team is keeping anyone in front of them on the perimeter.

    Obviously JV is not cleaning up messes as effectively as biyombo, but honestly at this point i dont think it would even matter, because not even Tim Duncan could clean up the shitty perimeter defence being played on this team right now. guys who were good last year are getting beaten on straight line drives on almost every possession. It would be fantastic if valanciunas had better timing but it still wouldn't be enough.
    Our 2nd and 3rd most used lineups have DRtg below 100. DD, jv, siakam are struggling on D. We're playing jv and DD heavy mins. It's partially about roster and balance imo.

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    djsunyc wrote: View Post
    we also overhelp imho. on weakside and strong side, we have defenders leave their man to help in the paint but then when the ball swings around, our defender is trying to recover which lets the guy drive right by him.
    Yeah, definitely overhelp in terms of cheating. Lots of guys ending up in no position to really do anything. It's especially bad on the weak side, where guys frequently end up in poor position that offers no real help in the lane and they can't recover to the shooter...and in trying to recover they can also end up closing out out of control so they're not in a position to rebound either.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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