How do we fix our defense?

[Barolt]

First, jv got hurt last yr and we needed biz to even make the playoffs, same thing once we got in the playoffs and jv got hurt again. Not to mention home court advantage. It's no certainty that we beat Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, even with jv.
Second, when jv was hurt this yr, our rookies struggled to stay on the court without fouling out. We had to rely on siakam by the end of one of the two games bc both of our centers had 5 fouls. We are already asking siakam to be starting pf. You think siakam is taking us to the ecf!?
Third, what I've stated more than once on this forum and earlier in this thread is that biz's defense on lebron in the ecf was crucial to us winning a single game vs. the cavs. If not for that we were a joke to the cavs. Biz putting lebron on his ass was the best thing we did in that series. That's the first time lebron even slightly took us seriously.
Go listen to end of Zach Lowe's latest pod. He talks about our strength of schedule and how the cavs don't take us seriously, even in "close" games. Feel free to say "wait what?" to him. Then go comp biz stats to noel. He's has mostly better stats, including playing out of position at pf. Better than siakam by a mile. If you look at vorp and bpm he is better than Jonas too. Jonas' career high vorp (last yr) is still lower than Noels' career low, playing out of position as a 21 yr old.

You somehow miss the part where we don't get close to the ECF without JV's dominance against Indiana and in the early parts of the Miami series?

JV was destroying Whiteside, Whiteside was destroying Biz.

[lewro]

Wait what?

Our ceiling if we don't trade for Noel is Eastern Conference Finals, in all likelihood. The trade you're arguing for, you think, keeps our ceiling at Eastern Conference Finals, why do we make the trade?

First, jv got hurt last yr and we needed biz to even make the playoffs, same thing once we got in the playoffs and jv got hurt again. Not to mention home court advantage. It's no certainty that we beat Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, even with jv.
Second, when jv was hurt this yr, our rookies struggled to stay on the court without fouling out. We had to rely on siakam by the end of one of the two games bc both of our centers had 5 fouls. We are already asking siakam to be starting pf. You think siakam is taking us to the ecf!?
Third, what I've stated more than once on this forum and earlier in this thread is that biz's defense on lebron in the ecf was crucial to us winning a single game vs. the cavs. If not for that we were a joke to the cavs. Biz putting lebron on his ass was the best thing we did in that series. That's the first time lebron even slightly took us seriously.
Go listen to end of Zach Lowe's latest pod. He talks about our strength of schedule and how the cavs don't take us seriously, even in "close" games. Feel free to say "wait what?" to him. Then go comp biz stats to noel. He's has mostly better stats, including playing out of position at pf. Better than siakam by a mile. If you look at vorp and bpm he is better than Jonas too. Jonas' career high vorp (last yr) is still lower than Noels' career low, playing out of position as a 21 yr old.

[Axel]

Hoiberg's system last year wasn't better than ours, and even though Gasol had Butler, he also played with some horrific sieves like Rose, Mcdermott and Brooks who were worse than any Raptor.

It would be pretty hard to capture Gasol's role within a system that's different to our and JVs role in ours with a simple statement about how bad McDermott and some others are defensively.

Do you really believe that Pau has the quickness and skills, at this point in his career, to really perform better than JV on our team? I don't see it.

[3inthekeon]

Hoiberg's system last year wasn't better than ours, and even though Gasol had Butler, he also played with some horrific sieves like Rose, Mcdermott and Brooks who were worse than any Raptor.

[Mess]

Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
-.07, .4, .1

One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.

Pics or it didn't happen

[Barolt]

Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
-.07, .4, .1

One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.

Why isn't THAT the part of the story that bothers you?

[lewro]

pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.

Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
-.07, .4, .1

One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.

[Lupe]

I'd correct that statement to the "Raptors as currently constructed do not have a prayer against the Cavs". Don't let those 2 wins fool you, we are not beating Cleveland with a middling defense. I think I've said this a couple times already but LeBron has only lost to a non top 5 defense once and that was when he didn't show up to the series against Dallas, and they were still an elite defense at #8 (and while they weren't top 5 they were tailor-made to stop LeBron).

[Axel]

Intuitively this seems correct, but Gasol had better DBPM and DRPM numbers the past 2 seasons and is ahead of JV this year as well.

I wonder how much of that is a product of having a system that better suits the skill set. I doubt Gasol would fair any better than JV in our system. Pau certainly isn't any quicker than JV at this point.

[3inthekeon]

pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.

Intuitively this seems correct, but Gasol had better DBPM and DRPM numbers the past 2 seasons and is ahead of JV this year as well.

[Axel]

Lol, I don't know what's funnier, this comment, that you were actually serious about the original picture + caption, how far the Bebe picture went over your head, or how hard you are now backpedaling and contradicting yourself after being called out on this attempt at making an increasingly muddled point with a picture. The Raptors have to beat Lebron. Noel will help stop Lebron and Bebe won't, Bebe only stops guys like Marcus Thornton. No, you didn't mean Noel will help stop Lebron. Nobody can stop Lebron. The Raptors don't have a prayer against the Cavs. But Noel will help anyway. Just not necessarily against Lebron. Even though a picture of Noel blocking Lebron with a "We don't need this?" caption was just posted. I'm really, really confused right now.

I disagree with the bold. The Raps do have a chance, in large part because other than LeBron, I don't see a roster full of guys that you can count on in the playoffs; but it means that Lowry is in peak form with Demar in peak form and JV in peak form - with great defensive contributions from everyone (especially Carroll, Ross, Powell and Patterson). That's why managing minutes and the schemes (both offence and defence) are more important to me than obscure trades.

Acquiring Noel doesn't change any of the above factors for beating the Cavs, so he's really a lateral risk with potential (and cost) raises. Noel's injuries scare me for the price tag. Also don't know if he's the type to be willing to come off the bench. Lots of risks for a guy who probably can't play PF and isn't necessarily a better (or cheaper) option than our existing starting C.

[KHD]

They're both superior defenders to jv and proven vets over bebe so yes that would help our defense. You actually wrote a lot about getting Pau in FA. That makes sense. We agree.

pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.

[Barolt]

I'm not backpedaling. Yes, I am serious about the photo and the caption. The bebe photo was over my head. I didnt exactly understand what I was looking at and I don't remember your caption now but iirc it was kinda of vague and sarcastic? I don't remember it's significance?
I'm not gonna recount all of what I said, it's posted. I feel the same today as I did at the draft. Even better now that Noels price has likely come down. I think noel can help our defense. I think he can help vs lebron but we will still lose. That's the jist, seems straightforward to me.

Wait what?

Our ceiling if we don't trade for Noel is Eastern Conference Finals, in all likelihood. The trade you're arguing for, you think, keeps our ceiling at Eastern Conference Finals, why do we make the trade?

[lewro]

Sure, the odd thing about chasing Noel is he plays a position the team has locked up with a very good young player on a solid deal. Meanwhile they need a starting PF, SF seems thing, and the starting PG will be a FA next summer. Acquiring a new starting C is an odd move from a roster needs perspective.

I outlined a possible resolution strategy to this problem in an earlier post. Perhaps you found that confusing as well? I ask because you seem to have parsed many of my posts and stated confusion.
Jv is not a good defender, whereas casey, Chandler and noel are defensive minded.
I'll add that Mavs team defeated lebron as well. Just so you are not confused, that doesn't mean I am saying the raps can or will beat lebron or that there are not a wealth of variables involved.

[lewro]

Lol, I don't know what's funnier, this comment, that you were actually serious about the original picture + caption, how far the Bebe picture went over your head, or how hard you are now backpedaling and contradicting yourself after being called out on this attempt at making an increasingly muddled point with a picture. The Raptors have to beat Lebron. Noel will help stop Lebron and Bebe won't, Bebe only stops guys like Marcus Thornton. No, you didn't mean Noel will help stop Lebron. Nobody can stop Lebron. The Raptors don't have a prayer against the Cavs. But Noel will help anyway. Just not necessarily against Lebron. Even though a picture of Noel blocking Lebron with a "We don't need this?" caption was just posted. I'm really, really confused right now.

I'm not backpedaling. Yes, I am serious about the photo and the caption. The bebe photo was over my head. I didnt exactly understand what I was looking at and I don't remember your caption now but iirc it was kinda of vague and sarcastic? I don't remember it's significance?
I'm not gonna recount all of what I said, it's posted. I feel the same today as I did at the draft. Even better now that Noels price has likely come down. I think noel can help our defense. I think he can help vs lebron but we will still lose. That's the jist, seems straightforward to me.