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How do we fix our defense?

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  • Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • On this topic, defence looks pretty fixed. Siakam's non-garbage time minutes are way down, Pat's been playing more with the starters, DeRozan's usage is more reasonable of late, and various role players are just playing better defensively (CoJo in particular). Throw in an easier schedule of late and the Raps rank 6th in DRTG over the past 15 games. Not bad.
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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        On this topic, defence looks pretty fixed. Siakam's non-garbage time minutes are way down, Pat's been playing more with the starters, DeRozan's usage is more reasonable of late, and various role players are just playing better defensively (CoJo in particular). Throw in an easier schedule of late and the Raps rank 6th in DRTG over the past 15 games. Not bad.
        JV's minutes coming down had a hand in it too. JV averaged 28.1 min/g in November and 24.2 in December.

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        @Chr1st1anL

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          JV's minutes coming down had a hand in it too. JV averaged 28.1 min/g in November and 24.2 in December.

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          This does seem to be playing a role as well. Not a ton of data on the Bebe-Siakam frontcourt (only 57 mins together) but they have been elite defensively with a 93.5 dRTG. Not much point comparing that to JV-Siakam though since the former only really plays in garbage time and the latter plays against the other team's best lineup.

          However 2Pat-Bebe and 2Pat-JV are interesting to compare.

          2Pat-Bebe: 120.6 oRTG, 98.9 dRTG, 21.7 netRTG in 374 mins
          2Pat-JV: 117.2 oRTG, 106.5 dRTG, 10.7 netRTG in 303 mins

          Now granted the former does see more action against bench lineups, but that difference in netRTG is very significant and it is both better on offense AND defense (with the greatest difference being on the defensive end).

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          • Lupe wrote: View Post
            This does seem to be playing a role as well. Not a ton of data on the Bebe-Siakam frontcourt (only 57 mins together) but they have been elite defensively with a 93.5 dRTG. Not much point comparing that to JV-Siakam though since the former only really plays in garbage time and the latter plays against the other team's best lineup.

            However 2Pat-Bebe and 2Pat-JV are interesting to compare.

            2Pat-Bebe: 120.6 oRTG, 98.9 dRTG, 21.7 netRTG in 374 mins
            2Pat-JV: 117.2 oRTG, 106.5 dRTG, 10.7 netRTG in 303 mins

            Now granted the former does see more action against bench lineups, but that difference in netRTG is very significant and it is both better on offense AND defense (with the greatest difference being on the defensive end).
            Considering that the majority of 2Pat's time spent with Bebe is as part of the Lowry+Bench line up; there's your reason.
            "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
            "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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            • Just Is wrote: View Post
              Considering that the majority of 2Pat's time spent with Bebe is as part of the Lowry+Bench line up; there's your reason.
              Lowry-2Pat-Nogueira: 127.2 oRTG, 91.5 dRTG, +35.6 netRTG (251 mins)
              Lowry-2Pat-Valanciunas: 123.7 oRTG, 102.4 dRTG, +21.3 netRTG (249 mins)

              DeRozan-2Pat-Nogueira: 113.7 oRTG, 99.0 dRTG, +14.7 netRTG (203 mins)
              DeRozan-2Pat-Valanciunas: 117.2 oRTG, 108.2 dRTG, +9.1 netRTG (266 mins)


              Gonna do this next one last because the sample size is very small for Bebe's but:

              Lowry-DeMar-Carroll-2Pat-Nogueira: 121.4 oRTG, 65.6 dRTG, +55.8 netRTG (24 mins)
              Lowry-DeMar-Carroll-2Pat-Valanciunas 129.7 oRTG, 102.9 dRTG, +26.8 netRTG (122 mins)

              There is a lot of evidence that shows that inserting Bebe into the same lineups for JV improves the team defensively significantly with minimal - if any - offensive drop-off.

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              • Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  Lowry-2Pat-Nogueira: 127.2 oRTG, 91.5 dRTG, +35.6 netRTG (251 mins)
                  Lowry-2Pat-Valanciunas: 123.7 oRTG, 102.4 dRTG, +21.3 netRTG (249 mins)

                  DeRozan-2Pat-Nogueira: 113.7 oRTG, 99.0 dRTG, +14.7 netRTG (203 mins)
                  DeRozan-2Pat-Valanciunas: 117.2 oRTG, 108.2 dRTG, +9.1 netRTG (266 mins)


                  Gonna do this next one last because the sample size is very small for Bebe's but:

                  Lowry-DeMar-Carroll-2Pat-Nogueira: 121.4 oRTG, 65.6 dRTG, +55.8 netRTG (24 mins)
                  Lowry-DeMar-Carroll-2Pat-Valanciunas 129.7 oRTG, 102.9 dRTG, +26.8 netRTG (122 mins)

                  There is a lot of evidence that shows that inserting Bebe into the same lineups for JV improves the team defensively significantly with minimal - if any - offensive drop-off.
                  Again though, almost all of BeBe's minutes with either of those players (and pairs of players) would be in bench units, and almost all of JV's are against starting lineups.

                  BeBe is great to have, but all the above really should tell us is how fantastic the team is as long as Pat is on the floor, especially against bench competition. Unless you buy that 24 minute sample as meaningful. Which obviously you shouldn't, considering the DRTG is such an outlier.

                  I mean, if the conclusion we're going for is that the Raptors are better defensively against opposing bench units than against their starters, no arguments here.

                  JV has terrible on-off defensive splits lately because so much of his time is still spent with the starting lineup (which is somehow even worse now than it was earlier in the year) without being able to go out in garbage time like Siakam does (also, Siakam continues to prove he's more of a small C than a PF - he's done OK at C as a help defender in some lineups recently).

                  I do like the BeBe-Siakam pairing - they are athletic enough to cover for each other' mistakes, and active enough on the boards offensively that they make up somewhat for their lack of floor spacing.

                  JV's minutes shrinking probably helps the defence a bit, though, for sure. He's no stopper. That said, BeBe isn't getting those extra minutes, for the most part - his minutes over the past 15 games are almost identical to his season long average. It's the small ball Pat-centered lineups (and some Siakam at C) that have picked up those extra minutes of late against certain matchups, and those lineups are quite good in those situations. So to judge whether JV getting fewer minutes is a cause for the improved defence, comparing BeBe lineups is not the way to do it - have to compare to the small lineups that are actually taking those minutes. And those small lineups on the year are at about a 105 DRTG - a good deal better than JV's on-court defensive numbers.
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                  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post


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                    So everyone but Siakam, Bebe, and Patterson need to be traded

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                    • raptors are now 15th in defense. hopefully it keeps going up!

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                      • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                        raptors are now 15th in defense. hopefully it keeps going up!
                        Over the past 15 games (about half the season so far) Raps have the 6th best DRTG.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          Over the past 15 games (about half the season so far) Raps have the 6th best DRTG.
                          Great to hear! Hasn't looked like we've been that good but clearly my eyes are deceiving me
                          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            Over the past 15 games (about half the season so far) Raps have the 6th best DRTG.
                            4th best DRTG for the month of December per NBA.COM after being 26th for the month of November. Some pointed out the schedule is a big factor and the D would impove, some pointed out this roster can be better than a middling defense if they just execute and put in better effort, some argued it will NEVER HAPPEN because JV SUCKS and CARROLL SUCKS and TRADES MUST HAPPEN.

                            This is tongue-in-cheek gloating, but I'd just like to point out the wild month-to-month swings that happen during a season. Can we hold back on freaking out on whatever/whichever player after just the most recent handful of games? Ah, I didn't think so. Carry on then.
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • tDotted wrote: View Post
                              So everyone but Siakam, Bebe, and Patterson need to be traded
                              Advanced stats: Fun for the whole family!
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post


                                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                                It confirms the eye-test that says DeRozan is by far the worst defender on the team, despite being consistently hidden against the worst offensive guard/wing. He needs to shoot such a high volume of shots just to maintain a positive net impact.

                                Seems like with a higher offensive usage, some of the other guys would get much closer to the good/good quadrant.



                                Note: could you include a synopsis (or link to one) about how each of the stats are calculated?

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