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How do we fix our defense?

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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    I say the key is to get Mason Plumlee or Pau Gasol. They've blocked LeBron too.
    They're both superior defenders to jv and proven vets over bebe so yes that would help our defense. You actually wrote a lot about getting Pau in FA. That makes sense. We agree.

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    • Barolt wrote: View Post
      Keep in mind, I was responding to someone using a picture of Noel blocking LeBron's shot and attempting to use that as evidence for why we need him.

      Both the data I posted and the picture are equally useless.
      Will Lou specifically asked Matt Moore about acquiring noel as a rim protector in his recent podcast. Was that a "useless" question?

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      • lewro wrote: View Post
        Will Lou specifically asked Matt Moore about acquiring noel as a rim protector in his recent podcast. Was that a "useless" question?
        No! The idea of acquiring Noel makes sense for a few different reasons, and Will's a smart guy.

        But a picture hardly counts as a basis for any sort of analysis.
        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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        • Barolt wrote: View Post
          No! The idea of acquiring Noel makes sense for a few different reasons, and Will's a smart guy.

          But a picture hardly counts as a basis for any sort of analysis.
          "We don't need this?" is not analysis. That was my caption. 2nd, of course a photo can be used for analysis. It's common practice in science, law, police work, etc. 3rd, I and others, have been submitting statistical data all day on this thread and earlier in various threads. Much of that data suggests that noel is a very good defender. So does the opinions of actual professional that works as actual analysts, etc. They're all "smart guys".

          Do you wanna show some data that demar doesn't "try hard".

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          • Idk I just see Noel as being an even higher ceiling Tyson Chandler on the defensive end of the floor, and we know what kind of wonders Casey has been able to work defensively with that kind of center despite having turnstiles in his backcourt like Barea and Jason Terry playing a ton of minutes. It's worth looking at.

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            • lewro wrote: View Post
              Sorry I missed this. I was literally out to lunch at that time.
              S.R., there is a huge difference in these photos. One is the best player in the world and our chief rival getting erased at the rim, the other is Marcus Thornton praying to Jesus. Bebe could be catching a rebound in that photo for all I can see.
              Bebe is a finding himself but his 2 or 3 career best games are on par with Noels career avg games across 150 game sample. Big difference.
              Lol, I don't know what's funnier, this comment, that you were actually serious about the original picture + caption, how far the Bebe picture went over your head, or how hard you are now backpedaling and contradicting yourself after being called out on this attempt at making an increasingly muddled point with a picture. The Raptors have to beat Lebron. Noel will help stop Lebron and Bebe won't, Bebe only stops guys like Marcus Thornton. No, you didn't mean Noel will help stop Lebron. Nobody can stop Lebron. The Raptors don't have a prayer against the Cavs. But Noel will help anyway. Just not necessarily against Lebron. Even though a picture of Noel blocking Lebron with a "We don't need this?" caption was just posted. I'm really, really confused right now.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • Lupe wrote: View Post
                Idk I just see Noel as being an even higher ceiling Tyson Chandler on the defensive end of the floor, and we know what kind of wonders Casey has been able to work defensively with that kind of center despite having turnstiles in his backcourt like Barea and Jason Terry playing a ton of minutes. It's worth looking at.
                Sure, the odd thing about chasing Noel is he plays a position the team has locked up with a very good young player on a solid deal. Meanwhile they need a starting PF, SF seems thing, and the starting PG will be a FA next summer. Acquiring a new starting C is an odd move from a roster needs perspective.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • S.R. wrote: View Post
                  Lol, I don't know what's funnier, this comment, that you were actually serious about the original picture + caption, how far the Bebe picture went over your head, or how hard you are now backpedaling and contradicting yourself after being called out on this attempt at making an increasingly muddled point with a picture. The Raptors have to beat Lebron. Noel will help stop Lebron and Bebe won't, Bebe only stops guys like Marcus Thornton. No, you didn't mean Noel will help stop Lebron. Nobody can stop Lebron. The Raptors don't have a prayer against the Cavs. But Noel will help anyway. Just not necessarily against Lebron. Even though a picture of Noel blocking Lebron with a "We don't need this?" caption was just posted. I'm really, really confused right now.
                  I'm not backpedaling. Yes, I am serious about the photo and the caption. The bebe photo was over my head. I didnt exactly understand what I was looking at and I don't remember your caption now but iirc it was kinda of vague and sarcastic? I don't remember it's significance?
                  I'm not gonna recount all of what I said, it's posted. I feel the same today as I did at the draft. Even better now that Noels price has likely come down. I think noel can help our defense. I think he can help vs lebron but we will still lose. That's the jist, seems straightforward to me.

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                  • S.R. wrote: View Post
                    Sure, the odd thing about chasing Noel is he plays a position the team has locked up with a very good young player on a solid deal. Meanwhile they need a starting PF, SF seems thing, and the starting PG will be a FA next summer. Acquiring a new starting C is an odd move from a roster needs perspective.
                    I outlined a possible resolution strategy to this problem in an earlier post. Perhaps you found that confusing as well? I ask because you seem to have parsed many of my posts and stated confusion.
                    Jv is not a good defender, whereas casey, Chandler and noel are defensive minded.
                    I'll add that Mavs team defeated lebron as well. Just so you are not confused, that doesn't mean I am saying the raps can or will beat lebron or that there are not a wealth of variables involved.

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                    • lewro wrote: View Post
                      I'm not backpedaling. Yes, I am serious about the photo and the caption. The bebe photo was over my head. I didnt exactly understand what I was looking at and I don't remember your caption now but iirc it was kinda of vague and sarcastic? I don't remember it's significance?
                      I'm not gonna recount all of what I said, it's posted. I feel the same today as I did at the draft. Even better now that Noels price has likely come down. I think noel can help our defense. I think he can help vs lebron but we will still lose. That's the jist, seems straightforward to me.
                      Wait what?

                      Our ceiling if we don't trade for Noel is Eastern Conference Finals, in all likelihood. The trade you're arguing for, you think, keeps our ceiling at Eastern Conference Finals, why do we make the trade?
                      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                      • lewro wrote: View Post
                        They're both superior defenders to jv and proven vets over bebe so yes that would help our defense. You actually wrote a lot about getting Pau in FA. That makes sense. We agree.
                        pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.

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                        • S.R. wrote: View Post
                          Lol, I don't know what's funnier, this comment, that you were actually serious about the original picture + caption, how far the Bebe picture went over your head, or how hard you are now backpedaling and contradicting yourself after being called out on this attempt at making an increasingly muddled point with a picture. The Raptors have to beat Lebron. Noel will help stop Lebron and Bebe won't, Bebe only stops guys like Marcus Thornton. No, you didn't mean Noel will help stop Lebron. Nobody can stop Lebron. The Raptors don't have a prayer against the Cavs. But Noel will help anyway. Just not necessarily against Lebron. Even though a picture of Noel blocking Lebron with a "We don't need this?" caption was just posted. I'm really, really confused right now.
                          I disagree with the bold. The Raps do have a chance, in large part because other than LeBron, I don't see a roster full of guys that you can count on in the playoffs; but it means that Lowry is in peak form with Demar in peak form and JV in peak form - with great defensive contributions from everyone (especially Carroll, Ross, Powell and Patterson). That's why managing minutes and the schemes (both offence and defence) are more important to me than obscure trades.

                          Acquiring Noel doesn't change any of the above factors for beating the Cavs, so he's really a lateral risk with potential (and cost) raises. Noel's injuries scare me for the price tag. Also don't know if he's the type to be willing to come off the bench. Lots of risks for a guy who probably can't play PF and isn't necessarily a better (or cheaper) option than our existing starting C.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                          • KHD wrote: View Post
                            pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.
                            Intuitively this seems correct, but Gasol had better DBPM and DRPM numbers the past 2 seasons and is ahead of JV this year as well.
                            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                            • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                              Intuitively this seems correct, but Gasol had better DBPM and DRPM numbers the past 2 seasons and is ahead of JV this year as well.
                              I wonder how much of that is a product of having a system that better suits the skill set. I doubt Gasol would fair any better than JV in our system. Pau certainly isn't any quicker than JV at this point.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • I'd correct that statement to the "Raptors as currently constructed do not have a prayer against the Cavs". Don't let those 2 wins fool you, we are not beating Cleveland with a middling defense. I think I've said this a couple times already but LeBron has only lost to a non top 5 defense once and that was when he didn't show up to the series against Dallas, and they were still an elite defense at #8 (and while they weren't top 5 they were tailor-made to stop LeBron).

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