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  • KHD wrote: View Post
    pau gasol at this stage is not better defensively than valanciunas.
    Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
    -.07, .4, .1

    One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.

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    • lewro wrote: View Post
      Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
      -.07, .4, .1

      One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.
      Why isn't THAT the part of the story that bothers you?
      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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      • lewro wrote: View Post
        Dbpm: 2.7 (this yr), 3.5 (last yr), 1.9 (career)
        -.07, .4, .1

        One is Jonas, the other Pau. You think the top is Jonas? You think that's what he looks like on the court? Last game Ryan Anderson walked into the lane, climbed up jvs chest and laid the ball in the hoop. Ryan Anderson. Not lebron. A better finisher would have crowned Jonas.
        Pics or it didn't happen
        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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        • Hoiberg's system last year wasn't better than ours, and even though Gasol had Butler, he also played with some horrific sieves like Rose, Mcdermott and Brooks who were worse than any Raptor.
          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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          • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
            Hoiberg's system last year wasn't better than ours, and even though Gasol had Butler, he also played with some horrific sieves like Rose, Mcdermott and Brooks who were worse than any Raptor.
            It would be pretty hard to capture Gasol's role within a system that's different to our and JVs role in ours with a simple statement about how bad McDermott and some others are defensively.

            Do you really believe that Pau has the quickness and skills, at this point in his career, to really perform better than JV on our team? I don't see it.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • Barolt wrote: View Post
              Wait what?

              Our ceiling if we don't trade for Noel is Eastern Conference Finals, in all likelihood. The trade you're arguing for, you think, keeps our ceiling at Eastern Conference Finals, why do we make the trade?
              First, jv got hurt last yr and we needed biz to even make the playoffs, same thing once we got in the playoffs and jv got hurt again. Not to mention home court advantage. It's no certainty that we beat Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, even with jv.
              Second, when jv was hurt this yr, our rookies struggled to stay on the court without fouling out. We had to rely on siakam by the end of one of the two games bc both of our centers had 5 fouls. We are already asking siakam to be starting pf. You think siakam is taking us to the ecf!?
              Third, what I've stated more than once on this forum and earlier in this thread is that biz's defense on lebron in the ecf was crucial to us winning a single game vs. the cavs. If not for that we were a joke to the cavs. Biz putting lebron on his ass was the best thing we did in that series. That's the first time lebron even slightly took us seriously.
              Go listen to end of Zach Lowe's latest pod. He talks about our strength of schedule and how the cavs don't take us seriously, even in "close" games. Feel free to say "wait what?" to him. Then go comp biz stats to noel. He's has mostly better stats, including playing out of position at pf. Better than siakam by a mile. If you look at vorp and bpm he is better than Jonas too. Jonas' career high vorp (last yr) is still lower than Noels' career low, playing out of position as a 21 yr old.

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              • lewro wrote: View Post
                First, jv got hurt last yr and we needed biz to even make the playoffs, same thing once we got in the playoffs and jv got hurt again. Not to mention home court advantage. It's no certainty that we beat Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, even with jv.
                Second, when jv was hurt this yr, our rookies struggled to stay on the court without fouling out. We had to rely on siakam by the end of one of the two games bc both of our centers had 5 fouls. We are already asking siakam to be starting pf. You think siakam is taking us to the ecf!?
                Third, what I've stated more than once on this forum and earlier in this thread is that biz's defense on lebron in the ecf was crucial to us winning a single game vs. the cavs. If not for that we were a joke to the cavs. Biz putting lebron on his ass was the best thing we did in that series. That's the first time lebron even slightly took us seriously.
                Go listen to end of Zach Lowe's latest pod. He talks about our strength of schedule and how the cavs don't take us seriously, even in "close" games. Feel free to say "wait what?" to him. Then go comp biz stats to noel. He's has mostly better stats, including playing out of position at pf. Better than siakam by a mile. If you look at vorp and bpm he is better than Jonas too. Jonas' career high vorp (last yr) is still lower than Noels' career low, playing out of position as a 21 yr old.
                You somehow miss the part where we don't get close to the ECF without JV's dominance against Indiana and in the early parts of the Miami series?

                JV was destroying Whiteside, Whiteside was destroying Biz.
                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                • Barolt wrote: View Post
                  Why isn't THAT the part of the story that bothers you?
                  Of course it is. Demar is a bad defender. He needs to play his best. Demarre being hurt made norm cover huge players. He needs to get healthy. The rest of our perimeter players are much better defensively. I said to you before, all our players need to try their best and we need as many good defenders as possible. Demar and jv are not good defenders.

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                  • Barolt wrote: View Post
                    You somehow miss the part where we don't get close to the ECF without JV's dominance against Indiana and in the early parts of the Miami series?

                    JV was destroying Whiteside, Whiteside was destroying Biz.
                    You missed the part where I said trade jv for noel bc i didn't. We'd have both. Just like last yr.

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                    • Axel wrote: View Post
                      It would be pretty hard to capture Gasol's role within a system that's different to our and JVs role in ours with a simple statement about how bad McDermott and some others are defensively.

                      Do you really believe that Pau has the quickness and skills, at this point in his career, to really perform better than JV on our team? I don't see it.
                      Bc he is old? That's ageism. I haven't seen Pau play this yr but he looked better than jv to me last yr and more than a decade of data still supports that, including this yr.

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                      • Mess wrote: View Post
                        Pics or it didn't happen
                        Lol

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                        • lewro wrote: View Post
                          Bc he is old? That's ageism. I haven't seen Pau play this yr but he looked better than jv to me last yr and more than a decade of data still supports that, including this yr.
                          Ageism? Are you even being serious?

                          Are you suggesting that older players do not lose a step or become slower? Or that Pau is somehow immune to it? Cause that's pretty ridiculous. All players get slower eventually and Pau is 36 years old. Maybe you should watch him and then try to say that he hasn't lost a step.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                          • lewro wrote: View Post
                            First, jv got hurt last yr and we needed biz to even make the playoffs, same thing once we got in the playoffs and jv got hurt again. Not to mention home court advantage. It's no certainty that we beat Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, even with jv.
                            Second, when jv was hurt this yr, our rookies struggled to stay on the court without fouling out. We had to rely on siakam by the end of one of the two games bc both of our centers had 5 fouls. We are already asking siakam to be starting pf. You think siakam is taking us to the ecf!?
                            Third, what I've stated more than once on this forum and earlier in this thread is that biz's defense on lebron in the ecf was crucial to us winning a single game vs. the cavs. If not for that we were a joke to the cavs. Biz putting lebron on his ass was the best thing we did in that series. That's the first time lebron even slightly took us seriously.
                            Go listen to end of Zach Lowe's latest pod. He talks about our strength of schedule and how the cavs don't take us seriously, even in "close" games. Feel free to say "wait what?" to him. Then go comp biz stats to noel. He's has mostly better stats, including playing out of position at pf. Better than siakam by a mile. If you look at vorp and bpm he is better than Jonas too. Jonas' career high vorp (last yr) is still lower than Noels' career low, playing out of position as a 21 yr old.
                            Raptors were 40-20 with JV playing. So unless you think they would go 2-20 or worse with a worse centre than Biyombo to step in, no, they did not need Biyombo to get into the playoffs.

                            They did indeed need him to get the final 2 wins against the Heat to get into the conference finals, though he wasn't much use in the playoffs before then.

                            PS - no such game has occurred this year where both Poeltl and Nogueira had 5 fouls. We never went to Siakam out of necessity at C - we have however used him as a small C in some lineups regardless of foul trouble depending on matchups. Making stuff up to help your argument won't get you too far.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Axel wrote: View Post
                              I disagree with the bold. The Raps do have a chance, in large part because other than LeBron, I don't see a roster full of guys that you can count on in the playoffs; but it means that Lowry is in peak form with Demar in peak form and JV in peak form - with great defensive contributions from everyone (especially Carroll, Ross, Powell and Patterson). That's why managing minutes and the schemes (both offence and defence) are more important to me than obscure trades.

                              Acquiring Noel doesn't change any of the above factors for beating the Cavs, so he's really a lateral risk with potential (and cost) raises. Noel's injuries scare me for the price tag. Also don't know if he's the type to be willing to come off the bench. Lots of risks for a guy who probably can't play PF and isn't necessarily a better (or cheaper) option than our existing starting C.
                              You can't depend on the cavs in the playoffs!? They're the champs.
                              Noel's played more games than jv and sully the last two seasons. There is a lot of speculation around his current "injury". Vorp and bpm suggest that he is better all around than jv, at a younger age. He is clearly better than siakam atm. He certainly seems to fit Casey's system more to me. Good news is that we would have both and actually know instead of speculate. It's not speculation to say that our defense is bad and noel is a very good defender. Our other weakness is front court experience and depth, noel helps that too. The cost? Noel is worth more than cory around the league and he might be worth more to our team imo. The only reason he is available at that price is bc of a historic blunder build in Philly. Resigned we could trade him for more than cory is worth by and possibly at a position of need. We have a lot of pgs/ball handlers and I am confident in all of them. I'm not at all confident in our front court.

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                              • lewro wrote: View Post
                                You can't depend on the cavs in the playoffs!? They're the champs.
                                Yes they are the Champs but neither Love or Irving have been big game players in their career. Only LeBron is a given in any series and they won last year because Irving and Love played better than normal in the playoffs.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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