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Stealing from Tim and Sid ==> Super Stat or Meaningless Number ===> Dec 30 1984

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  • Stealing from Tim and Sid ==> Super Stat or Meaningless Number ===> Dec 30 1984

    Its Lebrons Birthday.. which means the single biggest impediment for your Toronto Raptors getting out of the East to the NBA finals will be 32 years old this year. Not old by any stretch of the imagination but in sports have to say that Lebron is past the three quarter pole in his career.

    So .. with a fairly young core of players save for Kyle who will be 31 this coming March which strategy would you pursue.

    A) The Raps should side with an undefeated father time and keep the 2nd best team in the east intact for two more years when Lebron (who will undoubtedly still be good but not insurmountable) starts to slide and the window in Cleveland closes ....

    OR

    B) Should the Raps GM swing for the fences now to find that 3rd major impact player and go toe to toe with Cleveland in the coming two years ?
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Fri Nov 25, 2016, 09:02 PM.
    Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

  • #2
    I mean we obviously want to do B but it's not that easy to just "find" that player. Teams have to be willing to trade and we have to be able to outbid other teams who are interested. Either that or we find someone who is rated a lower than what their actual talent level is, trade for them and then have them blossom for us (e.g. Houston with Harden). Both are very difficult to do.

    It's not like Masai is just sitting there twiddling his thumbs as he's being offered superstars though.

    *Just wanted to add that I do think if someone like Cousins or Aldridge is attainable we should "swing for the fences" to get them, although I think that's fairly obvious and Masai would do that.
    Last edited by Lupe; Fri Nov 25, 2016, 05:44 PM.

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    • #3
      Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
      Its Lebrons Birthday.. which means the single biggest impediment for your Toronto Raptors getting out of the East to the NBA finals will be 32 years old this year. Not old by any stretch of the imagination but in sports have to say that Lebron is past the three quarter pole in his career.

      So .. with a fairly young core of players save for Kyle who will be 31 this coming March which strategy would you pursue.

      A) The Raps should side with an undefeated father time and keep the 2nd best team in the east intact for two more years when Lebron (who will undoubtedly still be good but not insurmountable) ....

      OR

      B) Should the Raps GM swing for the fences now to find that 3rd major impact player and go toe to toe with Cleveland in the coming two years ?
      That's why I'm glad I'm not Ujiri. There's no easy answer. But as a fan, I get to be an idealist, and that means nothing short of a championship matters, so I would pick B, every year, regardless of Lebron or not. I know that's not any way to run a franchise, but it's what sports is supposed to be all about.

      That said, I'll be an equally happy fan if they stay the course and keep developing mostly from within. That's also fun to watch, and it helps that they're in the playoffs every year nowadays while doing it, instead of playing meaningless games as of March. It's not impossible that they could catch CLE through luck or good management within the next 2 years, unlikely as it may be, and wouldn't that be sweet.

      I feel very positive that A is the option we'll see play out, with minor tweaks, but it's fun to consider what else could happen.
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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      • #4
        Masai is a patient guy and will wait. But personally i want them to sell the farm and go after Paul George or Boogie right now.

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        • #5
          Carlos Rogers wrote: View Post
          Masai is a patient guy and will wait. But personally i want them to sell the farm and go after Paul George or Boogie right now.
          jimmie wrote: View Post
          That's why I'm glad I'm not Ujiri. There's no easy answer. But as a fan, I get to be an idealist, and that means nothing short of a championship matters, so I would pick B, every year, regardless of Lebron or not. I know that's not any way to run a franchise, but it's what sports is supposed to be all about.

          That said, I'll be an equally happy fan if they stay the course and keep developing mostly from within. That's also fun to watch, and it helps that they're in the playoffs every year nowadays while doing it, instead of playing meaningless games as of March. It's not impossible that they could catch CLE through luck or good management within the next 2 years, unlikely as it may be, and wouldn't that be sweet.

          I feel very positive that A is the option we'll see play out, with minor tweaks, but it's fun to consider what else could happen.
          I concur....You only get so many swings at it...
          Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

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          • #6
            It depends on the player.

            I'm not swing for the fences with Kenneth Faried but if there's a really good forward available or an All Star/AllNba frontcourt position player of any position, I'd lining up.

            For the former we are talking Gallinari types (not his skillset but his relative ranking in the league) for the latter its like Boogie, Millsap etc.

            You take your shot against the Cavs in 2017, 2018 and 2019 with the best core you have.

            Maybe you win one, maybe you don't (maybe the Cavs have an injury), but you want to know you took your chance with this core. Lowry's window is largely this version of this team's window unless someone takes a big leap.

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            • #7
              You can probably do both if you can get a guy around Demar's age and not move JV, DD or Lowry. Haven't really considered if such a player could be acquired without moving one of them though. And I'm not sure such a player can be realistically acquired that would give us a real shot at beating LBJ and company this season or next. I don't think Boogie does it. Millsap maybe but I'm not taking that risk given the possibility he bolts in the offseason. So I guess I'm for A, but no reason to think we can't still be at or near the top of the East for many years to come IMO. I think a better opportunity will present itself in later seasons to make that jump, than what I see as possibilities this season.

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              • #8
                JawsGT wrote: View Post
                You can probably do both if you can get a guy around Demar's age and not move JV, DD or Lowry. Haven't really considered if such a player could be acquired without moving one of them though. And I'm not sure such a player can be realistically acquired that would give us a real shot at beating LBJ and company this season or next. I don't think Boogie does it. Millsap maybe but I'm not taking that risk given the possibility he bolts in the offseason. So I guess I'm for A, but no reason to think we can't still be at or near the top of the East for many years to come IMO. I think a better opportunity will present itself in later seasons to make that jump, than what I see as possibilities this season.
                Its hard ... very hard....to see the GM moving one of DD or Kyle if the scenario arises that a Cousins, Griffin, George type player hits the market. Kyle and DD would in my view be one of the top, if not the top reason a "star" player instructs his agent to make Toronto his landing spot.

                So if you buy into that idea that leaves the GM the option of saying yes to trading a big chunk of his current and future depth for a right now shot or waiting it out till Lebron starts the inevitable slide down the mountain from being the best player in the game to something less than that. Once the slide starts its irreversible and it only picks up speed. Could be 2 years .. could be 3...

                20% of the sched is done and things are starting to take shape... Griffin and the Clips look good and they will take their shot. Sacto and Indy are struggling and in all likelihood they will miss the playoffs. GM's cupboard is really full of very good and good young players and he has all his draft picks plus a bonus 1st this year if he wants to bid for a star. He could also look to add a tier 2 star such as a Milsap or an Ibaka which might cost a little less. But I think he owes it to the team as constructed to take a shot at it this year by adding more than a"tweaking the roster" type player between now and the deadline.
                Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sun Nov 27, 2016, 09:22 AM.
                Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

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                • #9
                  Another thing. How much is Patterson going to want this summer? Lowry is getting all the free agent talk, but PPat is almost as important. Can we afford both of them?

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                  • #10
                    Carlos Rogers wrote: View Post
                    Another thing. How much is Patterson going to want this summer? Lowry is getting all the free agent talk, but PPat is almost as important. Can we afford both of them?
                    Bird rights so we can sign them both. We will be paying tax though I think, and that may be the case even with just Lowry resigned. Resigning Patterson is a given I think unless he is traded this season, or a trade is made that brings in another PF. Sully is on a one year deal and we can't go into next season with just Pascal at PF.

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                    • #11
                      JawsGT wrote: View Post
                      Bird rights so we can sign them both. We will be paying tax though I think, and that may be the case even with just Lowry resigned. Resigning Patterson is a given I think unless he is traded this season, or a trade is made that brings in another PF. Sully is on a one year deal and we can't go into next season with just Pascal at PF.
                      Resigning Patterson is not a given. He may want to be paid more ( desperate teams may be willing to give him) and the Raptors may still wish to pursue (free agency) and leave space on the roster (trade) for a bonafide PF starter on this team. We still have 2 draft picks in this coming draft and if we keep both I expect at least 1 of them to be a draft steal.

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                      • #12
                        Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                        Its hard ... very hard....to see the GM moving one of DD or Kyle if the scenario arises that a Cousins, Griffin, George type player hits the market. Kyle and DD would in my view be one of the top, if not the top reason a "star" player instructs his agent to make Toronto his landing spot.

                        So if you buy into that idea that leaves the GM the option of saying yes to trading a big chunk of his current and future depth for a right now shot or waiting it out till Lebron starts the inevitable slide down the mountain from being the best player in the game to something less than that. Once the slide starts its irreversible and it only picks up speed. Could be 2 years .. could be 3...

                        20% of the sched is done and things are starting to take shape... Griffin and the Clips look good and they will take their shot. Sacto and Indy are struggling and in all likelihood they will miss the playoffs. GM's cupboard is really full of very good and good young players and he has all his draft picks plus a bonus 1st this year if he wants to bid for a star. He could also look to add a tier 2 star such as a Milsap or an Ibaka which might cost a little less. But I think he owes it to the team as constructed to take a shot at it this year by adding more than a"tweaking the roster" type player between now and the deadline.
                        I don't think we have a chance at landing a tier 1 star. Maybe we could sacrifice JV and get Cousins, but personally, I don't think that makes us better. Sure we could have a more robust offence, but defence is our biggest weakness as it pertains to playoff success, or more specifically, getting past CLE. I really really don't think Cousins will be the difference there, maybe even makes us worse defensively. PG is not being traded, nor is Davis whom posters have mentioned in other threads. Or Griffin for that matter. If we are to make a trade, a tier 2 star or complimentary piece that can have a serious impact on our D is what I would look at. And of course, I'm fine with staying the course as well.

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                        • #13
                          Hotshot wrote: View Post
                          Resigning Patterson is not a given. He may want to be paid more ( desperate teams may be willing to give him) and the Raptors may still wish to pursue (free agency) and leave space on the roster (trade) for a bonafide PF starter on this team. We still have 2 draft picks in this coming draft and if we keep both I expect at least 1 of them to be a draft steal.
                          Well in that scenario it basically means trading players for little to no money coming back or guys on expiring contracts in order to have the cap space necessary to pursue anyone in free agency. I agree that teams may throw more money at Patterson than the Raps are willing to spend, but if we don't ante up for him in the offseason we will have a bigger hole at PF than we do now, unless we make a trade this season that acquires another PF that can replace Patterson next season. We just don't have any cap space to work with this offseason. And trading players now to free up cap space for this offseason could basically mean "sacrificing" this season. As DanH has pointed out, Carroll, Ross and Patterson may need to be traded in order to free up sufficient cap space this offseason to go after a top or near top paid player.

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