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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    Am I missing something? Pascal is already a competent starter in the NBA. Then, as a rookie, he's going to develop whether he's in our starting lineup or with the 905 - working on different aspects of his game depending on the situation.
    No, he's not a competent starter. If he was, he'd play starter minutes. He wouldn't be on the court with Bruno during blowouts. Pascal makes a lot of defensive mistakes. Also, on offense, defenders don't respect him. He has a lot of potential, but he's probably the least experienced PF on a top 10 team in the league.

    Furthermore, the only skill he consistently brings is effort. That's a legit great skill, D League would help his growth, but my answer was in context to a particular question. D League minutes alone will not help Pascal develop into a legit starter on the quality of team the Raptors are. Will minutes make him a better player? No doubt, but D League minutes to NBA minutes can not be measured on a 1:1 ratio. The more minutes he can get playing in the NBA, the more he will benefit from in the future.

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  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    I don't disagree with you, but that's the way I interpreted the question that was asked. Can Pascal gain from time in the D League? Definitely. Will that time get him to the point of being a competent starter in the NBA? In my opinion, not without additional minutes on the main team. How long? I don't know. Months? A season? If he goes down and next season he's the third PF playing sporadic minutes, that's less minutes of him playing NBA level ball than he's getting now as a starter.

    But again, if that's what the Raps have to do to win, I get it.
    Am I missing something? Pascal is already a competent starter in the NBA. Then, as a rookie, he's going to develop whether he's in our starting lineup or with the 905 - working on different aspects of his game depending on the situation.

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    I guess we have a different interpretation of the word "development" . To me it means" improvement of skills and understanding of the game". Nothing to do with stepping into the starting lineup of a legit playoff team.
    I don't disagree with you, but that's the way I interpreted the question that was asked. Can Pascal gain from time in the D League? Definitely. Will that time get him to the point of being a competent starter in the NBA? In my opinion, not without additional minutes on the main team. How long? I don't know. Months? A season? If he goes down and next season he's the third PF playing sporadic minutes, that's less minutes of him playing NBA level ball than he's getting now as a starter.

    But again, if that's what the Raps have to do to win, I get it.

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  • 3inthekeon
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    I watch a fair amount of D League -- more than I care to admit. I've seen after thoughts turn into NBA players. I've seen prospects speed up their development. I've seen guys fail in the main league, go down to the D League and save their careers. I've never seen a player go from the D-League immediately to a starting lineup on a legit playoff team. Maybe Miki Moore? So it happened once in the history of the league, and Moore had some a fair amount of NBA experience before revamping his career there. That's the history of the league. It doesn't happen. We're talking about 15 years of evidence.
    I guess we have a different interpretation of the word "development" . To me it means" improvement of skills and understanding of the game". Nothing to do with stepping into the starting lineup of a legit playoff team.

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    What evidence do you have, other than opinion, that 905 minutes will slow down development? Norm ran the point down there quite a bit. Bebe played some PF. Couldn't let them do that in game action with the Raps. Pascal can work on his ball handling and extend his range in game action with the 905. No way he would be allowed to dribble around like DeMar or fire away like Ross up here.

    Not saying they will do that, but there is actual evidence of helping players diversify their skillsets down there which is a very big part of development.
    I watch a fair amount of D League -- more than I care to admit. I've seen after thoughts turn into NBA players. I've seen prospects speed up their development. I've seen guys fail in the main league, go down to the D League and save their careers. I've never seen a player go from the D-League immediately to a starting lineup on a legit playoff team. Maybe Miki Moore? So it happened once in the history of the league, and Moore had some a fair amount of NBA experience before revamping his career there. That's the history of the league. It doesn't happen. We're talking about 15 years of evidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3inthekeon
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    No doubt, 905 is great to have. I believe that 905 is a great place to become a legit NBA player, and get needed minutes to learn, but Siakam would learn a lot faster playing his minutes on the main roster.

    That said, the Raps got to do, what the Raps got to do to win. If that means slowing down Pascal's development by a few months, or even a season that's fine by me.
    What evidence do you have, other than opinion, that 905 minutes will slow down development? Norm ran the point down there quite a bit. Bebe played some PF. Couldn't let them do that in game action with the Raps. Pascal can work on his ball handling and extend his range in game action with the 905. No way he would be allowed to dribble around like DeMar or fire away like Ross up here.

    Not saying they will do that, but there is actual evidence of helping players diversify their skillsets down there which is a very big part of development.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hotshot
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    No doubt, if I'm Casey, the immediate goal is to win. If Sulli's rebounding and physical play makes the team better, then they have to play him. I was just saying that in relation to the question: Can Siakam be the answer at PF by next year? The potential is there, but if he loses minutes starting he may lose the needed minutes to get there by season's end
    Even if Pascal gets the minutes, I believe that it won't be enough time to gauge if Pascal should be a starter long terms. Not to mention that the Raps can lose 2pat and Sulli to free agency and this will leave the Raptors quite thin. If they can sign/trade for an elite starter at the PF position in the off season without hurting the core then it is something they should explore. Giving what Pascal brings the table and what Masai will be paying him in the next 3 years, it's almost no brainer that he will be here and playing a significan't role.

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  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    I just don't know if I'd bet if Casey opts for Sullinger's recovering already-slower feet over Pascal's fleet ones. We have a somewhat traditional starting big-man combo when it comes to jump-shooting, but Siakam's quickness is how he's earning his keep in Casey's rotation. Sullinger had the edge coming into this season, but he's guaranteed nothing at this point and would almost certainly come off the bench for limited minutes depending on matchups.

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    I think Sullinger is going to have a hard time seeing the floor.....
    If the team is rolling I could see this as a possibility.

    Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Your concern should not be on Pascal but the team overall. Suli is still a better rebounder, can guard the 5 and is a better passer then Siakam. At this point of his short rookie stint Pascal has thrived on opportunities using his speed in the open space. That open space is going to shrink significantly come playoff's time and that's where a more experience player like Sulli should be more valuable.
    No doubt, if I'm Casey, the immediate goal is to win. If Sulli's rebounding and physical play makes the team better, then they have to play him. I was just saying that in relation to the question: Can Siakam be the answer at PF by next year? The potential is there, but if he loses minutes starting he may lose the needed minutes to get there by season's end.

    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    To add to Hotshot's comments, If Pascal ends up having trouble getting minutes, it's because the Sully /PPat are healthy and playing well.

    If he needs minutes, there's the 905. A great place to utilize the attempt to expand his shooting range in game action.
    No doubt, 905 is great to have. I believe that 905 is a great place to become a legit NBA player, and get needed minutes to learn, but Siakam would learn a lot faster playing his minutes on the main roster.

    That said, the Raps got to do, what the Raps got to do to win. If that means slowing down Pascal's development by a few months, or even a season that's fine by me.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3inthekeon
    replied
    Puffer wrote: View Post
    Will Sully be back in time for the final trade deadline? Masai might pull the trigger on a late first round or early second round pick if some team needs a player with Sully's skill set.
    Original timeline was late December - late January (Oct 29, 2-3 months)

    Trade deadline is Feb 23 I think

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  • 3inthekeon
    replied
    To add to Hotshot's comments, If Pascal ends up having trouble getting minutes, it's because the Sully /PPat are healthy and playing well.

    If he needs minutes, there's the 905. A great place to utilize the attempt to expand his shooting range in game action.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hotshot
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    My only concern is where he gets his minutes to develop when Sulli comes back .
    Your concern should not be on Pascal but the team overall. Suli is still a better rebounder, can guard the 5 and is a better passer then Siakam. At this point of his short rookie stint Pascal has thrived on opportunities using his speed in the open space. That open space is going to shrink significantly come playoff's time and that's where a more experience player like Sulli should be more valuable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puffer
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    I think Sullinger is going to have a hard time seeing the floor.....
    Will Sully be back in time for the final trade deadline? Masai might pull the trigger on a late first round or early second round pick if some team needs a player with Sully's skill set.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Yeah, he definitely has a chance. His defense has improved exponentially in only a quarter of a season. Siakam appears to be a really fast learner. Hopefully, by season's end he looks the part of starting power forward on both ends. Then, power forward will be deep enough to let Sulli go without trying to replace him.

    My only concern is where he gets his minutes to develop when Sulli comes back (assuming that Sullinger keeps in shape). He's not the star we all wanted at the 4, neither is Pat Pat, but they both bring dynamics that other guys don't have, and teams don't see regularly. 2 Pfs who can switch onto wing players -- one high energy who gets an extra 2 buckets a game being the fastest guy down the court, and the other a legit 3 and D. If Paskal can add the corner three at a decent percentage, he's going to be a problem for lots of teams who just don't have the depth the Raps have.
    I think Sullinger is going to have a hard time seeing the floor.....

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Pascal Siakim...power forward problem solved?
    Puffer wrote: View Post
    His shot is developing and not only is he obviously working on it, but Casey has given him the go ahead for corner threes at least. You have to think they are hoping to develop him into a stretch four.

    He does a pretty good job on opposing big bodies already. A little more strength, another 5-10 pounds. Maybe that's the longer term goal. I can't think of another established players who's path of development has been similar, but Sullinger going down hasn't hurt Siakim's chances at all.
    Yeah, he definitely has a chance. His defense has improved exponentially in only a quarter of a season. Siakam appears to be a really fast learner. Hopefully, by season's end he looks the part of starting power forward on both ends. Then, power forward will be deep enough to let Sulli go without trying to replace him.

    My only concern is where he gets his minutes to develop when Sulli comes back (assuming that Sullinger keeps in shape). He's not the star we all wanted at the 4, neither is Pat Pat, but they both bring dynamics that other guys don't have, and teams don't see regularly. 2 Pfs who can switch onto wing players -- one high energy who gets an extra 2 buckets a game being the fastest guy down the court, and the other a legit 3 and D. If Paskal can add the corner three at a decent percentage, he's going to be a problem for lots of teams who just don't have the depth the Raps have.

    Leave a comment:

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