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Who has been the 3rd best Raptor?

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    PJ and Ibaka making some of you realize just how overrated 2pat was on here. He is a good first big off the bench but, was never starter material. Don't care what on/off stats you give me. He is way too damn inconsistent. With a starter you know what you going to get from him every game.

    Ibaka for example is a starter. You know at the end of games your going to get at least 12 and 5.

    You never know what your going to get from 2pat. 2pat benefited from being the only foward with that skillset. Please Masai don't pay this guy anymore than Ross. He wants more let him walk.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Mon Mar 20th, 2017, 05:23 PM.

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  • DanH
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Yes, there are a lot of factors. It's not just that PJ can play 3/4 but also switch 1-4. There's value in Pat's shooting but maybe 5%? But pjs slightly better in Rebs so small ball Ibaka has shooting at the 5 and PJ helps slightly on the boards. The loss of Ross and Powell's regression gives weight to the need for 3s tho. That's already convoluted and barely scratches the surface without even touching on DMC or your golden boy ��
    You still want bebe ahead of yak and sit both anyway? How bout norm to the 905?
    Huh? Well with Ross gone and Lowry hurt and the bench needing offence, obviously Powell should be playing more, even with Tucker here who has played a good number of PF minutes. When Carroll and Ross were both playing and fitting well with their lineups (ie when DD and Lowry were healthy) there was no need to crowd the rotation. Powell playing more after Ross was traded was always the plan.

    I want neither BeBe nor Poeltl to play when JV, Ibaka and Pat are healthy and the game is in doubt, especially once we hit the playoffs. I definitely haven't changed that stance. If Pat doesn't come back next year, you'd need more PF minutes from Ibaka and therefore Poeltl would play more as the primary backup C. One of BeBe or Poeltl probably gets dropped over the summer, ideally you keep Poeltl even if BeBe is probably the better player for the role this season when Lowry is healthy to play with the bench unit. Without Lowry it's all about finding a fit, and BeBe has been useless without Lowry and Pat, thankfully Poeltl has some chemistry with Wright and that's helped the moribund bench offence a bit.

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  • DanH
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Pats value is dropping by the day. He's the biggest wildcard guess..could be anywhere from as low as 10 to as high as 20+ per year.
    If Pat and Tucker can be had for a combined 20M that would be amazing. I'd happily lock both up for 5 years at that number even with the risk of drop off in their play long term. I imagine the combined expected cost is more like 25-30 though, so you start to have to make decisions.

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  • lewro
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Thing about PJ is his ability to play both F positions. If you are really looking to shed costs, and can run essentially a three man F rotation with Ibaka, Tucker and Powell, letting Pat walk (though I think we're all aware how risky that could be, he's huge for this team) and dumping Carroll really frees up flexibility. Then you have Siakam as depth at PF, and Poeltl as backup C (so you don't need a lot of Ibaka minutes there except in closing minutes). The wing becomes a bit thin, you probably have to troll for a vet min guy to fill in at SF in case of injury.

    It will all come down to how much everybody costs. Could vary wildly relative to current guesswork.
    Yes, there are a lot of factors. It's not just that PJ can play 3/4 but also switch 1-4. There's value in Pat's shooting but maybe 5%? But pjs slightly better in Rebs so small ball Ibaka has shooting at the 5 and PJ helps slightly on the boards. The loss of Ross and Powell's regression gives weight to the need for 3s tho. That's already convoluted and barely scratches the surface without even touching on DMC or your golden boy 😉
    You still want bebe ahead of yak and sit both anyway? How bout norm to the 905?

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Thing about PJ is his ability to play both F positions. If you are really looking to shed costs, and can run essentially a three man F rotation with Ibaka, Tucker and Powell, letting Pat walk (though I think we're all aware how risky that could be, he's huge for this team) and dumping Carroll really frees up flexibility. Then you have Siakam as depth at PF, and Poeltl as backup C (so you don't need a lot of Ibaka minutes there except in closing minutes). The wing becomes a bit thin, you probably have to troll for a vet min guy to fill in at SF in case of injury.

    It will all come down to how much everybody costs. Could vary wildly relative to current guesswork.
    Pats value is dropping by the day. He's the biggest wildcard guess..could be anywhere from as low as 10 to as high as 20+ per year.

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  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Thing about PJ is his ability to play both F positions. If you are really looking to shed costs, and can run essentially a three man F rotation with Ibaka, Tucker and Powell, letting Pat walk (though I think we're all aware how risky that could be, he's huge for this team) and dumping Carroll really frees up flexibility. Then you have Siakam as depth at PF, and Poeltl as backup C (so you don't need a lot of Ibaka minutes there except in closing minutes). The wing becomes a bit thin, you probably have to troll for a vet min guy to fill in at SF in case of injury.

    It will all come down to how much everybody costs. Could vary wildly relative to current guesswork.
    A low cost guy like Omri Casspi comes to mind. Anthony Tolliver is another one, but he's making $8M for next season.

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  • DanH
    replied
    lewro wrote: View Post
    Part of the reason I'm so indecisive about the draft is that I don't know where the chips will fall with Pat, Tucker, DMC, and JV. Pat was my clear #3 until the trade. Now it's clearly Ibaka and I'm leaning PJ at #4. If PJ is $5m cheaper than Pat then that's a big factor imo. Many good reasons.
    I think the draft should be after FA.
    Thing about PJ is his ability to play both F positions. If you are really looking to shed costs, and can run essentially a three man F rotation with Ibaka, Tucker and Powell, letting Pat walk (though I think we're all aware how risky that could be, he's huge for this team) and dumping Carroll really frees up flexibility. Then you have Siakam as depth at PF, and Poeltl as backup C (so you don't need a lot of Ibaka minutes there except in closing minutes). The wing becomes a bit thin, you probably have to troll for a vet min guy to fill in at SF in case of injury.

    It will all come down to how much everybody costs. Could vary wildly relative to current guesswork.

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Yeah I think you keep JV over Pat at this point because he's a more unicorn skill set (assuming you bring back PJ and Ibaka)..Pat plus Cojo plus Carroll gone to keep salaries reasonable, in a perfect world

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  • lewro
    replied
    Part of the reason I'm so indecisive about the draft is that I don't know where the chips will fall with Pat, Tucker, DMC, and JV. Pat was my clear #3 until the trade. Now it's clearly Ibaka and I'm leaning PJ at #4. If PJ is $5m cheaper than Pat then that's a big factor imo. Many good reasons.
    I think the draft should be after FA.

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  • golden
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Lowry
    Derozan
    Ibaka
    Tucker
    Valanciunas
    Powell
    Patterson

    Patterson was #3 prior to the trade deadline. He's a lot more expendable now that we have patterson 2.0 that also blocks shots
    Toss in Carroll and CoJo and that's a seriously deep and talented rotation.

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Lowry
    Derozan
    Ibaka
    Tucker
    Valanciunas
    Powell
    Patterson

    Patterson was #3 prior to the trade deadline. He's a lot more expendable now that we have patterson 2.0 that also blocks shots
    Did you just call Ibaka Patterson 2.0? Ibaka is one of the best two way players in the league Patterson is no where near that. That's disrespect right there lol

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Lowry
    Derozan
    Ibaka
    Tucker
    Valanciunas
    Powell
    Patterson

    Patterson was #3 prior to the trade deadline. He's a lot more expendable now that we have patterson 2.0 that also blocks shots

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    TRex wrote: View Post
    Ibaka then Powell.
    Powell still has a lot to learn. He plays out of control a lot, which attributes to his super competitive personality. I love that he wants to help the team win, but sometimes he hurts us more than help with his reckless drives to the rim. Talent wise I definitely agree that he's top 4 though

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  • The Great One
    replied
    Ibaka then Powell.

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  • lewro
    replied
    PJ climbing the ranks?

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