Time to move DC to starting PFand NP to starting SF?

[rocwell]

PP case is very interesting. I'd love to see him as our starter, but damn he's inconsistent af... must be something with his head lol

[white men can't jump]

I seriously doubt Carroll has much trade value. His contract has too much term to be salary filler, and his injuries and age tank his value even when he's playing well.

That said, I'm not seeing the same defensive deficiencies from him that others are - he seems fine. Not great, like we hoped. But he's not a huge liability, in my eyes.

Liability is relative to role/expectations, and to me he's been the worst defensive player in our starting lineup and I think in our entire rotation...And I'm not sure it's even close, and he's counted on to be the exact opposite. We could afford to have Siakam in the starting lineup if we were getting even 80-90% of what we want from Carroll. We're not getting anything close to that. I can't think of a night where he was a positive defensively. Maybe a good quarter here or there but that's it. Add a rookie like Siakam (who has actually done about as well as one could hope) and it's a recipe to start badly most of the time on the defensive end.

We were better off last year platooning JJ, Ross and Norm. And this year both Ross and Norm have outplayed Carroll by quite a bit. I don't think Carroll gives us a veteran presence, or a big body against bigger wings as he's not actually that big/strong a guy. He's just a guy struggling to get on track and while he's starting to move better, he's not really defending better.

It's definitely a frustrating situation. I'm really hoping Carroll will start to turn it around over the next few weeks. It will have been 2+ months since the season started and I'm not sure how long the "he needs to get healthy/in game shape" excuse can be justified.

[white men can't jump]

PP case is very interesting. I'd love to see him as our starter, but damn he's inconsistent af... must be something with his head lol

Will Sullinger be the answer starting though? Our rebounding should be great, but Boston hid him defensively by having him play C.

While I wasn't a big fan of signing Sully, I thought it was a natural bench fit if you start PP. You could theoretically bring Sully in for either JV or Pat depending on matchups and the kind of night they are having. Not sure how starting him next to JV against frontline players will work out, especially given his injury and history of weight issues. Guess our rebounding will get better but will our D? We'll have to wait and see I guess...

[A.I]

Insert PP as the starting 4, Norm as the starting 3. Use Carroll as a backup 3 AND 4. Play him 20-25 mins a game. Problem solved. Everyone's happy.

This will never happen though.

The reality is we need Carroll specially when we play teams like NY and Indiana and Chicago....you know teams with really good dynamic big SF's.

Interestingly enough, Powell did a good job defending PG in the Playoffs last season. Melo on the other hand, Powell can't guard, especially because he has a post game.

[S.R.]

Powell had a great night and has tons of potential, but let's not read to much into the defence from that game. BOS was missing their best offensive player.

The team needs Carroll to be good, Powell won't be able to guard SF's with height/size in the playoffs. They're doing the right thing in trying to get Carroll back to full health and I've got no problem with the slow and steady developmental hand they're using with their young players. It's working. Powell will play one day - a lot.

[KHD]

I seriously doubt Carroll has much trade value. His contract has too much term to be salary filler, and his injuries and age tank his value even when he's playing well.

That said, I'm not seeing the same defensive deficiencies from him that others are - he seems fine. Not great, like we hoped. But he's not a huge liability, in my eyes.

I dunno Dan, "Not great" is putting it lightly in my mind. He's been below average to me, and that just won't work when we already have demar derozan and energy-conservation-mode Lowry at the defensive end.

Mobility is a big problem and hopefully it goes back to normal, but the lack of awareness is at odds with what we were expecting to get. I noticed the terrible defensive IQ in the post-season but hoped it was a lack of familiarity with the team in terms of actual play time, but now? he gets regular minutes and still watches the ball.

Biggest thing is that if his defence isn't well above average, why bother playing him? We have extremely better offensive options (Ross, Powell) who can play that spot by committee, and can be at least average defensively there in most cases. At this moment the only time I find myself thinking "we need carroll on D" is if the opposing 3 has any post game.

[Majesiu]

At this moment the only time I find myself thinking "we need carroll on D" is if the opposing 3 has any post game.

So Melo and LeBron, whom we might encounter in the playoffs. Against Charlotte last night LeBron played some minutes and C and that was terrifying, still kudos to Hornets to erase 1st half deficit and force LeBron to play 42 minutes on 2nd night of B2B (also it might not necessarily be true, but someone noticed that LeBron plays with a lot of intensity even in regular season games against Hornets just to shit on MJ), we have only 2 option to guard him in that situation: PPat and Caroll. Also Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who is prototypical defender you'd want to throw at him, wasn't able to slow down Lebron (17-24 FG, 44 pts, 10 assists), so there goes hope that individual defender can make a difference (and Hornets are not bad defensively).

What other choice we have with DeMarre right now? He absolutely isn't a player we hoped when we signed him, but if we bench him we lose a lot of our upside defensively in playoffs. His value sinks even more so there comes option of trading him, with 2 years after this at 15$ mil/year you won't find trading partners that won't cost you something more. So we should play him, maybe just less, if rest is so important, tune down his minutes 20 per game until he finds himself (if...).

There is other way to increase minutes of Powell and Ross, play with the trend around the league and go with even more small-ball. First step is to insert PPat back in starting lineup, and when there aren't any opposing threats in the post at PF sub him with wing instead of Siakam, rookie is hurting our offense, and rebounding improves with him off the floor. Sure that plan changes when Sully comes back ready to play, but then we'd be month wiser and can reassess situation again: Did Carroll show any sign of regaining his grit that he showcased in Atlanta? Did rebounding got hurt by benching Siakam in favor of another wing player? Does Powell or Ross improve our defense more than DeMarre?. Sure right now answer to question 1 is big no and to 3 is yes, still giving it some time seems like our only option.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I looked for this thread to post pretty much the same thing as majesiu above.

I like Siakam, and think he could be a key contibutor one day.
That said we need more minutes for Powell.

Is the answer to start Patterson and play him 35 minutes a game while going small ball for the rest fo the game?
Siakim will have his time but for this year is this the best route?

[Jangles]

Need to shut down Carroll for the year. He needs more rest. Easily the worst Raptor this year.

[DanH]

I looked for this thread to post pretty much the same thing as majesiu above.

I like Siakam, and think he could be a key contibutor one day.
That said we need more minutes for Powell.

Is the answer to start Patterson and play him 35 minutes a game while going small ball for the rest fo the game?
Siakim will have his time but for this year is this the best route?

I like it. Can even use Siakam for spot backup PF minutes when needed.

[KHD]

I like it. Can even use Siakam for spot backup PF minutes when needed.

you mean play the actual best starting 5? shocking idea!

[S.R.]

Sully will help. Glad they have Siakam, but he should start racking up some DNP's at that point.

[golden]

Another variation:

Start Norm at SF & start 2Pat at PF. Bring Carroll off the bench in 2Pat's role, since Casey's been using him more as a PF recently.

[DanH]

Another variation:

Start Norm at SF & start 2Pat at PF. Bring Carroll off the bench in 2Pat's role, since Casey's been using him more as a PF recently.

I'd rather Carroll play beside Pat. That's where he's been most effective. And he can still sub out early if you want him back in with the bench.

[lewro]

The rebounding is suffering. Pat is meh but DC is 3.6 per I think. Around half what he was in ATL.