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  • #31
    jimmie wrote: View Post
    Not sure if Casey is THE problem or not right now, but given Lowry's comments yesterday, there's now an official coach-star PG rift. I don't think Lowry wins this one. He's on the last few months of his contract; if he finishes the season as a malcontent, regardless again of whether he's 'right' about Casey, I would bet he's the one gone and Casey stays.

    http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050...our-3-1.670335
    If this organization chooses Casey over Lowry. That would be a massive massive massive mistake. Lowry is THE reason this team is better than a 8th seed.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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    • #32
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      Masai would have to be pretty sure that Lowry is the cause of this turmoil, to choose Casey over him. But from us fans' perspective, we haven't seen anything in the last 4 years to suggest that Lowry is preventing this team from succeeding.
      What I'm saying is, if the season ends like it's going right now, and if Masai doesn't think a coaching change is the Big Fix, then re-signing Lowry this summer to a massive contract does nothing to move this roster forward or make it more likely that they can win a championship. If Masai thinks Casey is the sole or main cause of the problems, sure, he'll try to re-sign Lowry (which may force his hand in firing Casey).

      If he thinks Lowry is at risk of going back on the positive personal changes he's made in the past 3 years and becoming a malcontent again, on the other hand -- or if even if he just believes there's more to the current issues that coaching decisions -- Masai may see it as safer to cut ties now rather than mortgage the next 4-5 years. Sure, maybe he can trade Lowry down the road, but that's no sure thing and almost certainly would not bring back equal value.

      Keeping Casey and entering a mild rebuild with another PG (Cojo, Wright, FVV or someone else) and maybe more roster changes, or firing Casey and doing those same things, would be the less risky bet.

      Masai was already going to have to make a decision this summer on how far he thinks this team can go with Lowry running the show. Up until a week or so ago, I would say that decision was easy. Now, I'm not sure it's so easy. A lot will depend on if and how they pull themselves out of this rough spot over the next 8 weeks or so.
      Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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      • #33
        jimmie wrote: View Post
        What I'm saying is, if the season ends like it's going right now, and if Masai doesn't think a coaching change is the Big Fix, then re-signing Lowry this summer to a massive contract does nothing to move this roster forward or make it more likely that they can win a championship. If Masai thinks Casey is the sole or main cause of the problems, sure, he'll try to re-sign Lowry (which may force his hand in firing Casey).

        If he thinks Lowry is at risk of going back on the positive personal changes he's made in the past 3 years and becoming a malcontent again, on the other hand -- or if even if he just believes there's more to the current issues that coaching decisions -- Masai may see it as safer to cut ties now rather than mortgage the next 4-5 years. Sure, maybe he can trade Lowry down the road, but that's no sure thing and almost certainly would not bring back equal value.

        Keeping Casey and entering a mild rebuild with another PG (Cojo, Wright, FVV or someone else) and maybe more roster changes, or firing Casey and doing those same things, would be the less risky bet.

        Masai was already going to have to make a decision this summer on how far he thinks this team can go with Lowry running the show. Up until a week or so ago, I would say that decision was easy. Now, I'm not sure it's so easy. A lot will depend on if and how they pull themselves out of this rough spot over the next 8 weeks or so.
        Fair enough. But IMO, if you lose Lowry, a mild rebuild wouldn't help much. Gut the roster, and start from scratch. No Casey, no DeRozan, no Jonas, no Carroll.

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        • #34
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          Fair enough. But IMO, if you lose Lowry, a mild rebuild wouldn't help much. Gut the roster, and start from scratch. No Casey, no DeRozan, no Jonas, no Carroll.
          Why no JV? He'd finally have opportunity and his contract is fantastic? Worst case you can increase his value.

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          • #35
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            Fair enough. But IMO, if you lose Lowry, a mild rebuild wouldn't help much. Gut the roster, and start from scratch. No Casey, no DeRozan, no Jonas, no Carroll.
            Realistically, I think DD stays in any scenario. Too much investment there, from a PR standpoint etc., to cut him loose. But otherwise, yeah, I think anything from the very minor (coaching change + roster tinkering) to full teardown with anyone on the roster as expendable would have to be considered as options if they flame out this season. They simply can't take 2 big steps back this year after the past 2 years of promising forward momentum.
            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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            • #36
              How'd we go from eastern conference finals (first time ever) to a great start, a rough patch (where 2 key pieces were missing/are missing for most of it) to blow the team up and rebuild?

              Thank goodness none of you are in charge of this lol. Yes it's a rough patch, but the foundation of a good to very good team is here (as has been proven) and although they might not be a threat to win the championship, neither are 28 other teams.

              This is what being a competitive and good team looks like in the NBA. Yeah they're flawed and need a starting PF but that's not the bar for blowing up a team lmao.

              Hilarious.
              Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
              Because its 2015

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              • #37
                Masai is between a Pound the Rock and a hard place...

                Whether he keeps Casey or not there seems it like unless we make a trade that drastically changes how this season is projecting that there is actually a good chance Lowry looks elsewhere...

                You think Masai is going to run the risk of looking a fool to management and inadvertently put his own neck on the line?! MLSE will still be stuck with Casey's bill/contract and they could bring in a coach that does even worse and see their big FA leave for nothing.

                Masai is going to need a miracle trade or he's getting exposed for selling people on Fool's Gold very soon.

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                • #38
                  JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                  Masai is between a Pound the Rock and a hard place...

                  Whether he keeps Casey or not there seems it like unless we make a trade that drastically changes how this season is projecting that there is actually a good chance Lowry looks elsewhere...

                  You think Masai is going to run the risk of looking a fool to management and inadvertently put his own neck on the line?! MLSE will still be stuck with Casey's bill/contract and they could bring in a coach that does even worse and see their big FA leave for nothing.

                  Masai is going to need a miracle trade or he's getting exposed for selling people on Fool's Gold very soon.
                  He's in a shitty predicament salary wise, but he did get himself into it. I could be wrong, but i believe all of the contracts the raptors have were signed by Masai....
                  Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
                  Because its 2015

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                  • #39
                    S.R. wrote: View Post
                    Are those essentially Patterson's clutch minutes Bebe's been getting?
                    Nope. Until last night, most of BeBe's clutch minutes have been at C in JV's place (where the team has been terrible). Some, but not many, have been at PF. Mostly the Raps have gone small in the clutch (with JV or BeBe at C) when Pat has been out.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • #40
                      JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                      Masai is between a Pound the Rock and a hard place...

                      Whether he keeps Casey or not there seems it like unless we make a trade that drastically changes how this season is projecting that there is actually a good chance Lowry looks elsewhere...

                      You think Masai is going to run the risk of looking a fool to management and inadvertently put his own neck on the line?! MLSE will still be stuck with Casey's bill/contract and they could bring in a coach that does even worse and see their big FA leave for nothing.

                      Masai is going to need a miracle trade or he's getting exposed for selling people on Fool's Gold very soon.
                      I would seriously doubt that Lowry would turn down a guaranteed 5th year in the $30M range just because he doesn't like Casey. It's Lowry's last big payday and the only way he doesn't re-sign is if Masai low-balls him.

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                      • #41
                        golden wrote: View Post
                        I would seriously doubt that Lowry would turn down a guaranteed 5th year in the $30M range just because he doesn't like Casey. It's Lowry's last big payday and the only way he doesn't re-sign is if Masai low-balls him.
                        If Philly (or anyone else) comes calling with a 4/150 deal, does Lowry pin himself to playing for years under a coach he dislikes (in the hypothetical where Lowry really dislikes Casey)? Once you have 100M, doesn't the balance tip a bit where additional cash is worth a little less versus things like day to day enjoyment, location, etc?

                        I don't think we can just assume that this is a problem you can throw money at. I guess it depends how upset Lowry is with Casey at the time of the negotiations.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • #42
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          If Philly (or anyone else) comes calling with a 4/150 deal, does Lowry pin himself to playing for years under a coach he dislikes (in the hypothetical where Lowry really dislikes Casey)? Once you have 100M, doesn't the balance tip a bit where additional cash is worth a little less versus things like day to day enjoyment, location, etc?

                          I don't think we can just assume that this is a problem you can throw money at. I guess it depends how upset Lowry is with Casey at the time of the negotiations.
                          If he's looking to sign elsewhere and forgo the money, his first choice will be to go to an immediate championship contender, not Philly or another rebuilding situation. That's what aging all-stars typically do. Sixers won't be relevant for at least a few years, best case. Then you have to look at which legit contender needs a point guard. Rockets are probably the best case scenario for Lowry, but can they clear the cap space? Spurs maybe?

                          It'll be tough to find a better overall money + near-term contender situation for Lowry than the Raps, even if Casey stays. Pretty sure his agent, who gets the guaranteed commission, will tell him to make his decision rationally, not emotionally.

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                          • #43
                            golden wrote: View Post
                            I would seriously doubt that Lowry would turn down a guaranteed 5th year in the $30M range just because he doesn't like Casey. It's Lowry's last big payday and the only way he doesn't re-sign is if Masai low-balls him.
                            Maybe not because he doesn't like Casey, but what if he thinks Casey is staying and the team can't win with Casey? In that case, he'd be an idiot not to consider somewhere with a better chance to win on his last NBA contract... And if he sucks it up and signs with Casey still here, what do you think are the chances Lowry stays content and quiet over the course of the contract?

                            Unless they turns things around, fast, Masai is going to have very difficult decisions to make... And maybe they will. Patterson back and some kind of trade to shake things up, who knows.
                            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                            • #44
                              Here is my answer :
                              First, many will talk about trade, others about Casey and others about defence. It might be a mix of all of that, but in my humble opinion, it is all about JV. Agree or disagree, but that is what I think. This team should be built around JV, our first interest in the offence should be looking inside - JV -. If we insist on being a jump shooting team, then we will go nowhere.
                              Casey is using JV in the wrong way, JV's main task is to make screens for our shooters and he would be lucky if they get generous and pass him when he is open or demanding the ball.
                              There is nothing to take from DD or KL, but I think the are not sharing the ball well and they are showing a great deal of selfishness.
                              Now, coming to the crucial point which is our offence and our ability of scoring, we do think that because we can score well, we will win : I am so sorry to say that, that is a stupid feeling and idea. WE WILL WIN CRITICAL GAMES WHEN WE CAN MAKE STOPS IN THE RIGHT TIME. If we score 200 point and the other team scored 201, the other team will win due to their ability not to score but to make stops. Every coin has two faces and we have major problems in both faces - offence and defence-. Casey is a big part of the problem, but you can not fire a coach whom you have just signed.

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                              • #45
                                golden wrote: View Post
                                If he's looking to sign elsewhere and forgo the money, his first choice will be to go to an immediate championship contender, not Philly or another rebuilding situation. That's what aging all-stars typically do. Sixers won't be relevant for at least a few years, best case. Then you have to look at which legit contender needs a point guard. Rockets are probably the best case scenario for Lowry, but can they clear the cap space? Spurs maybe?

                                It'll be tough to find a better overall money + near-term contender situation for Lowry than the Raps, even if Casey stays. Pretty sure his agent, who gets the guaranteed commission, will tell him to make his decision rationally, not emotionally.
                                Personally I think PHI will be the frontrunners unless we're able to make a huge trade that drastically alters the trajectory of this core and no Ibaka wouldn't qualify as being big enough. Just my 2c but

                                TOR: doesn't like the coach who is signed to a long extension. Team started out a HISTORIC rate of offence which he must know and now see is not sustainable so how they are playing now is fairly close to what they really are. Yes they would get a few more wins here and there with better effort and different play calls but this team sorely lacks defence both on the wings (DD doesn't defend and Carroll is just too damn slow now) and then may not be able to keep Patterson and JV is just too slow. He must see the ceiling for the team. Add Ibaka it doesn't change much. You may be lock in as a 2nd rd team but BOS will surpass you very soon as they are looking to add Hayward in the off-season not to mention 2 top 5s that can be packaged for another true superstar....oh let's not forget having to play almost the most minutes in the league and destroying your body

                                SAS: would be by far the best as he would actually have a legit chance to win some rings but I just don't see the Spurs clearing the space for him tbh and that's all I can really say.

                                PHI: very interesting because there is a lot of sentimental value to returning home especially when you will be entering the twilight of your career. So you say rebuild but people really don't understand how good PHI can quickly become in just a year or two. I'm telling you right now Simmons is going to be almost Giannis like except GA will look to score more and Ben will be making mindblowing passes. This also will save a lot of energy for Kyle because he won't need to constantly set up the offence is actually arguably even better off the ball and he is going to get a ton of open shots. Least we forget PHI is adding at minimum one other top 5 pick could be Lonzo Ball, Malik Monk...they could be getting both if LAL falls out the bottom 4 and yes that is a ton of YOUNG talent (I know that's the big thing) but that young talent is almost a PERFECT match with his skillset.

                                A big man to lob to OR kick out to for a 3, a SF that draws in the defence to give him wide open shots, likely another knockdown shooter to swing to in Ball or Monk then there's Saric. While young, life is good when it's a fit. Sure they're not in immediate title contention BUT they WILL be a Playoff team with Lowry 100% and can you think how special that would be to him to go home to PHI and watch his home city fall back in love with their team and he's the big all-star FA they brought in....even without a ring that's a special feeling to be inspiring kids back home like that and you know with Embiid and Simmons the media coverage for him will be FAR more than it is here back in the States.

                                In comparison he stays here with a coach he doesn't like, running the same old plays he has for years, he burns himself out trying to constantly carry the team, the GM is reluctant to make any big changes, the city isn't happy because we're staying on the same spot on the treadmill and you're no more a real contender here than you are in PHI really. Except in 2-3 years when those kids start entering their prime they will be carrying you and will likely be knocking at the door for contention where as here, those 2-3 years look likely to be at the upper ends of mediocrity. I know if I was Lowry, PHI sounds like a lot more exciting option than TOR right about now.
                                Last edited by JamesNaismith; Mon Feb 13, 2017, 05:46 PM.

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