Everything 2017 Off-Season

[Chr1s1anL]

It's not which two players. It's which player this system is cater to. Again you are pushing this narrative.

Lowry is one of our best off ball player. Please don't make this about Kyle and isolate Derozan here.

And again, I have no problem letting Lowry go, he's been an ass the last few months. But Derozan is the "style of play" victim here. It was clear in the press conference today when reporters kept on asking about whether Derozan would be able to fit into a change of style.

So again, stop pushing that we don't have a pass first PG narrative. It's quite stupid and baseless to solve our problem. The issue right now is our max guy is an ISO guy who can't shoot the 3, and we finally accepted to the failure of our "system". Now how do we move forward is the problem...

I mention both of them. It just happens that one is injury prone, doesn't show up in the playoffs and happens to be a free agent.

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[ball4life]

I mention both of them. It just happens that one is injury prone, doesn't show up in the playoffs and happens to be a free agent.

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Well your initial argument is that we don't move the ball enough because we don't have a pass first PG.

anyone that watches this brand of Raptors basketball knows who needs ISO set up to be effective on the court.

And also dude, It's OKAY to accept your favorite players flaws. like why do you refuse to criticize Demar or find the need to deflect any criticisms for the failure of this team on to other players?

[Apollo]

Chr1s1anL may very well be DeMar DeRozan.

[rocwell]

Chr1s1anL may very well be DeMar DeRozan.

[Cody73]

I don't want to see JV traded. I'd much rather see Joseph shipped out.... lots of teams need a PG that are in the playoff hunt for next year. Denver, Utah, Detroit. As much as it pains me to say this, I'd rather see Powell moved than JV. Playing Ibaka at the 5 works best in small doses. Playing him as a full time C is stupid.... and if Casey goes, I bet any money the new Coach will want to keep Jonas and use him as a key figure in his offense.

TBH, if we do retool... I can see us still being competitive. Not championship competitive, but playoffs competitive.... which only helps grow our young guys even more.

[JimiCliff]

That was incredible. Masai opens the press conference by saying that everything he's going to say is BS, and then says nothing but BS for half an hour.

[MixxAOR]

I don't want to see JV traded. I'd much rather see Joseph shipped out.... lots of teams need a PG that are in the playoff hunt for next year. Denver, Utah, Detroit. As much as it pains me to say this, I'd rather see Powell moved than JV. Playing Ibaka at the 5 works best in small doses. Playing him as a full time C is stupid.... and if Casey goes, I bet any money the new Coach will want to keep Jonas and use him as a key figure in his offense.

TBH, if we do retool... I can see us still being competitive. Not championship competitive, but playoffs competitive.... which only helps grow our young guys even more.

Wow Joseph and Powell over JV? I don't know what you see in JV. But he has same issues as Derozan. Not defensive minded, one dimensional, and ISO player. Poeltl can easily supplement what JV is giving us.

[Maury]

Wow Joseph and Powell over JV? I don't know what you see in JV. But he has same issues as Derozan. Not defensive minded, one dimensional, and ISO player. Poeltl can easily supplement what JV is giving us.

JV isn't an ISO player. He's excellent on the roll and as a pick and pop guy... we just don't use him right. Demar has to learn how to hit his bigs on the roll to really take a step in his playmaking abilities. Lowry and Demar are two of the worst guys in the league at passing into the post. Just terrible. Kyle also needs to figure out how to hit his roll man if he can't lob it. It would unlock our offence if we could run proper pnr.

[psrs1]

IF we resign Lowry at 30million a year and he gets injured yet again and again we're screwed. If you're gonna spend 30million a year I would like to have some assurance that you're gonna be available. This board has reminded us how much more likely KL is to break down than most players due to his style of play. Taking a short term risk on a guy like Rondo may not be that crazy. We're going to be hamstrung if KL gets a serious injury. Additionally I'm not as confident with KL having the proper attitude and work ethic like DD had after signing his big contract last offseason.

[Chr1s1anL]

IF we resign Lowry at 30million a year and he gets injured yet again and again we're screwed. If you're gonna spend 30million a year I would like to have some assurance that you're gonna be available. This board has reminded us how much more likely KL is to break down than most players due to his style of play. Taking a short term risk on a guy like Rondo may not be that crazy. We're going to be hamstrung if KL gets a serious injury. Additionally I'm not as confident with KL having the proper attitude and work ethic like DD had after signing his big contract last offseason.

I wouldnt mind buy low on Jrue Holiday. See of he can regain his all-star form. Still just 26 years old.

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[MixxAOR]

JV isn't an ISO player. He's excellent on the roll and as a pick and pop guy... we just don't use him right. Demar has to learn how to hit his bigs on the roll to really take a step in his playmaking abilities. Lowry and Demar are two of the worst guys in the league at passing into the post. Just terrible. Kyle also needs to figure out how to hit his roll man if he can't lob it. It would unlock our offence if we could run proper pnr.

So it all hinges on Derozan's and Lowry's improvement as PNR passers? Not a lot to do with JV. We might as well save the money and use Poeltl in those same scenarios. Not really interested in PNR big with poor defense. Joseph is elite defensive pg and Powell has a lot of potential to be a solid rotational player. Money wise. It just makes sense to dump JV

[JamesNaismith]

I wouldnt mind buy low on Jrue Holiday. See of he can regain his all-star form. Still just 26 years old.

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It won't be a buy low because Pels already said they would like to bring him back but at this point I'd rather drop money on Jrue than Kyle being that Jrue will make less but also be going into his prime not nearing it's end after breaking down all of the last 4 years by Playoff time.

[GOLDBLUM]

One thing I'm wondering about, with all the talk now of pass the ball more, get good looks, etc. ... When you look back on our season, for a brief time we had what was on track to literally be the best offense in NBA history. And I remember how, during that time, after a super-slow start to the season for guys like Patterson, Ross, Cory and Demarre, that everybody was draining their shots, left and right. The ball was zipping and nobody could miss. Demar actually even came down in ppg from his insane first ten game numbers when he was trying to prove he was better than #46 in the league. He was moving the ball and helping the team find ways to win. And Kyle was an absolute assassin. BUT THEN, another period comes and Cory, Demarre, Patterson are hitting NOTHING. Demar and Kyle try to compensate and keep us afloat.

Anyway, guess I'm just curious, we've actually seen it when it works. And then we've seen it when guys who should be capable can't hit an open shot to save their fucking lives. That's the question to me I guess. If Dwayne is right about one thing, it's that it's a make or miss league. So how the eff do you account for a team that at times can absolutely firing on all cylinders, and then out of nowhere all they can do is miss, miss, miss, miss, miss - and they can't get out of it. I mean, obviously, I think there can and must be MAJOR overhauls in the playbook and the approach. Clearly, there are terrible habits and flawed systems at play. Short of that, the only glaring thing is to part ways with guys like Patrick and Demarre who just utterly disappeared when it mattered. Shame with Patrick particularly because we've seen him when it's worked.

[inthepaint]

One thing I'm wondering about, with all the talk now of pass the ball more, get good looks, etc. ... When you look back on our season, for a brief time we had what was on track to literally be the best offense in NBA history. And I remember how, during that time, after a super-slow start to the season for guys like Patterson, Ross, Cory and Demarre, that everybody was draining their shots, left and right. The ball was zipping and nobody could miss. Demar actually even came down in ppg from his insane first ten game numbers when he was trying to prove he was better than #46 in the league. He was moving the ball and helping the team find ways to win. And Kyle was an absolute assassin. BUT THEN, another period comes and Cory, Demarre, Patterson are hitting NOTHING. Demar and Kyle try to compensate and keep us afloat.

Anyway, guess I'm just curious, we've actually seen it when it works. And then we've seen it when guys who should be capable can't hit an open shot to save their fucking lives. That's the question to me I guess. If Dwayne is right about one thing, it's that it's a make or miss league. So how the eff do you account for a team that at times can absolutely be making, and then out of nowhere all they can do is miss, miss, miss, miss, miss - and they can't get out of it. I mean, obviously, I think there can and must be MAJOR overhauls in the playbook and the approach. Clearly, there are terrible habits and flawed systems at play. Short of that, the only glaring thing is to part ways with guys like Patrick and Demarre who just utterly disappeared when it mattered. Shame with Patrick particularly because we've seen him when it's worked.

Yes I wish that was something we could read into this discrepancy, but I think the reasons are pretty dry, probably a combination of:
1. The caliber of the opponents they were facing during a given stretch
2. Number of home games in the stretch
3. Time (or lack thereof) between games i.e. number of back to backs. Scheduling was HUGE this year as a factor.
4. Injuries (or lack thereof) on your own roster and on the opponent's
5. Who's resting on the team (and on the opponent)
6. Gunning for all-star recognition
7. Overall motivation (or lack thereof) for seeding
8. Good stretch of internal chemistry
9. Probably many other small locker room factors that we can't really pick up on.

The regular season is so long, that you actually have seasons within a season. Teams put out "runs" (or dives) within the season, much like it happens within a game. Playoffs though are about nerves, experience, and quick coaching adjustments and counter-adjustments. There's no time for dicking around. You either have the chest hair or you don't...

[magoon]

okay lets take Lew at his assumptions for a minute(he is after all more connected than any of us)

DanH feel free to chime in

We resign Tucker to a deal that is 3 to 4 years and 10 to 12 million per year
We resign Lowry to a deal that is 4 to 5 years and 28 to 35 million per year
We resign Ibaka to a deal that is 4 to 5 years and 18 to 22 million per year

He assumes JV and DeMarre Carroll are moved.

Starters are presumably Lowry, DeRozan, Tucker, ???, Ibaka.

So now we got a hole at 4 and backup 4 and arguably backup 5

What can we fill those gaps with?

sidenote: under the right circumstances Patterson can be signed and traded

assuming that DeMarre and Jonas can be traded away for nothing coming back (which is doubtful, but if anybody can do it, Masai can):

resign Kyle at 30
resign Ibaka at 20
resign Tucker at 11
draft John Collins (or Ike Anigbogu or Justin Patton)
sign one of the following with mid-level exemption at 6: Jonas Jerebko, Amir Johnson, Thomas Robinson, Brandon Bass
sign Vince Carter at 3 with bi-annual exemption

Kyle (30) / Cory (7.6) / VanVleet (1.3)
Demar (27.7) / Norman (1.4) / Delon (1.6)
Tucker (11) / Carter (3) / Bruno (2.4)
Jerebko (6) / Siakam (1.3) / Collins (1.4)
Ibaka (20) / Bebe (2.9) / Poeltl (2.8)