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"The Raptors Are Good, but They Might Have to Blow It Up to Be Great" - The Ringer.

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  • #16
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Sure, I'm confident in the next man up coming in though the pipelines. But say theoretically it's bye bye cojo carroll and jv with little in the way of nba rotation guys coming back. We're kidding ourselves if we think theres no drop off suffered
    I'm completely okay with letting Carroll and Joseph go. Wright will be a good player, he'll be the backup PG full time, and we can always find a cheaper SF. Getting rid of JV will be a problem. I don't think Poeltl will be ready to be the starting C yet, his defense is solid, but his rebounding is still questionable. Only way this works is if Masai finds the new Biyombo, a C on a reasonable contract who overachieves.

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    • #17
      There will always be great/good players on other teams, that will never change. What can change is how many great/good players we have on our team, and since right now we have as many as we've ever had we've got to go for it while we have them.
      The name's Bond, James Bond.

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      • #18
        This team proved capable of a top 5 offence already this year, now they look to have the personnel for a top 5 defence. Any time you can be top 5 at both ends of the floor, fuck the conventional superstar wisdom, that is a talented team that has as reasonable a shot as anybody, better than many teams who have managed to land their franchise superstar guy.

        Basically this team has continued to improve and defy expectations ever since Dolan blocked the Lowry trade. Ujiri has done the right thing in riding it out and working with it to see how far it'll go, and that's still the right thing to do.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • #19
          S.R. wrote: View Post
          This team proved capable of a top 5 offence already this year, now they look to have the personnel for a top 5 defence. Any time you can be top 5 at both ends of the floor, fuck the conventional superstar wisdom, that is a talented team that has as reasonable a shot as anybody, better than many teams who have managed to land their franchise superstar guy.

          Basically this team has continued to improve and defy expectations ever since Dolan blocked the Lowry trade. Ujiri has done the right thing in riding it out and working with it to see how far it'll go, and that's still the right thing to do.
          Well maybe a little less of a reasonable shot than the team that has a top 2 offense and defense. But overall I agree.

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          • #20
            Also, though I've been contributing to this discussion, we need to remember to enjoy what's in front of us. There will be PLENTY of time to discuss this all ad nauseum when the run is over. But right now we could have the 4th or 5th best team once healthy and a chance to say we can beat the cavs without dying of laughter. It's a disservice to ourselves as fans to not enjoy this spring, the here and now, before decisions have to be made.

            Never take anything for granted like "we'll be back" when you have a good team right here right now
            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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            • #21
              KeonClark wrote: View Post
              Nope, it's simply devils advocate on an approach if we're serious about winning titles. The writer of the article had an interesting response in the comments to someone who said "this is stupid, so everyone who isn't cavs or warriors should blow it up"



              I'm not saying I agree with it, but we truly are in a unique nba position. Tough to say if we're "between a rock and a hard place", or if we're in a great, enviable position. Or are we somehow both at the same time?
              Yeah, I kind of think that Masai was banking on really hitting one of his picks or a young guy stepping up, but as of now, neither of those will happen. A lot of good young players is good, especially when they pay their top guys a lot of money, but imo its hard to make the "Our window is 2-3 years" argument when its a lot easier to see other teams in the East vastly improving (Bucks, Wizards, Celtics, etc.) while idk how the Raps make a significant jump.

              I disagree in the OP when the writer says Masai will blow it up with a bad playoff run. If that was the case, the roster would have blown up a while ago, plus they really don't have much to gain by trading anyone. Say you trade Derozan for a mid lotto pick, well then you probably just lose Lowry and Ibaka for nothing in free agency. Not sure it makes sense to give up a couple years of a good playoff team for a long rebuild.

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              • #22
                KeonClark wrote: View Post
                I do agree wholeheartedly, but I also wonder now if the poeltl draft pick was made with this offseason in mind. Did masai anticipate adding a 3rd banana (ibaka) and cutting our 17 million 7 footer?
                Yes, of course he did. Not saying JV will for sure be gone, but Poeltl was absolutely drafted as a possible replacement, no question.
                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                • #23
                  So those remaining chips that Ujiri has on the table...what do you think he's going to do with them? Raptors are pretty close to being all in with competing for a championship, and will likely need to go all the way in, to do so.

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                  • #24
                    Just a few bullet points:

                    1. This discussion is almost always presented as a false choice.

                    2. The mystery box is always more enticing than the prize out in the open.

                    3. People who make these arguments are ones, by and large, who have never owned or had to run a business.

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                    • #25
                      Reading the article it ultimately comes down to Lowry's contract and age as the argument to abandon ship. And that's not new.. that's been discussed before. The team is gelling without Lowry but this team is not a contender (even a pseudo one) without him. Lowry has to come back. He's still the engine.

                      He'll most likely degrade in 2 or 3 years... but I don't see how Masai can't come up with a trade scenario for Lowry at that point.. Anyone can be traded. And Lowry will arguably be a 5x or 6x all-star by then... There will always be a young team willing to take on an all-star caliber vet to help mentor their kids or to help them get into the playoffs.

                      If Lowry really does become untradeable then Masai can look at trading DD and Serge instead if he feels that it's better to take a step back then to continue with mediocrity. We can then go into tank mode with guys like Poeltl, Powell and Wright (and a hobbled/old Lowry) leading the charge.

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                      • #26
                        jimmie wrote: View Post
                        Yes, of course he did. Not saying JV will for sure be gone, but Poeltl was absolutely drafted as a possible replacement, no question.
                        I don't really agree with this. Especially after the playoffs JV just had.

                        I gathered that he just wanted the BPA. And that was Poeltl. It was an analytically driven draft pick. He picked the guy he wanted at 27 and the guy that the computer thought was the best available at 9.

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                        • #27
                          Ridiculous. The only real concerns right now revolve around the luxury tax, with Lowry's age being a minor afterthought. Masai will trim salary as needed, but we have the depth to compensate. Lowry's age won't be a factor until his next contract is almost over.

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                          • #28
                            slaw wrote: View Post
                            Just a few bullet points:

                            1. This discussion is almost always presented as a false choice.

                            2. The mystery box is always more enticing than the prize out in the open.

                            3. People who make these arguments are ones, by and large, who have never owned or had to run a business.
                            Yeah.. going to line up with you on this one.

                            This style of article is totally disingenuous as it peddles the notion that somehow it is a sound idea to take a loan against the house to take a chance on a "sure thing" at Santa Anita in the 4th.

                            MLSE has put an incredibly competent manager in charge of the franchise. This isn't Dolans Knicks who seemingly act on public opinion polls and change their long term strategy once a week.
                            Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Mar 27, 2017, 03:47 PM.
                            There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                            - TGO

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                            • #29
                              slaw wrote: View Post
                              Just a few bullet points:

                              1. This discussion is almost always presented as a false choice.

                              2. The mystery box is always more enticing than the prize out in the open.

                              3. People who make these arguments are ones, by and large, who have never owned or had to run a business.
                              Oh please. Rebuilding right now might be the wrong call, but to frame the rebuilding argument as one made by people who have no business experience is a joke. The most successful businesses are run by people with a long-term vision, and sometimes sacrificing short-term gains​ for long-term success is a good strategy.

                              The odds of it happening this year are close to zero, imo, and I doubt we'd even see it next year, as we're not going to sacrifice new possibilities with Masai's first key prize acquisition.

                              The first domino to fall would be Casey going. That would happen at least a year before a full rebuild.

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                              • #30
                                Blowing up a successful team then becoming even better within 10 years is probably even less common than winning a ring without a superstar

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