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  • golden wrote: View Post
    JV: 2282 mins. Amir: 2214 mins. Pat: 1118 mins.

    Not even close.
    How about 4th Q minutes? Also what are the games played
    tDotted wrote: View Post
    JV was ahead of Patterson in minutes and was behind Amir by 0.6 .

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • iblastoff wrote: View Post
      dear lord.

      you realize you're falling into high school level arguing with logical fallacies right? with X player gone, this team went from top 10 to bottom 20. therefore, X player is the reason for the drop in defense.

      so then why doesn't that apply when you add X player to another team? oh right because there are MYRIADS of other factors. not just "raptors with biyombo" and "raptors without biyombo"
      It was also you deducing your argument that the 2013-14 was better defensively without Biz, lol. Do I sense hypocrisy.?
      You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

      When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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      • iblastoff wrote: View Post
        dear lord.

        you realize you're falling into high school level arguing with logical fallacies right? with X player gone, this team went from top 10 to bottom 20. therefore, X player is the reason for the drop in defense.

        so then why doesn't that apply when you add X player to another team? oh right because there are MYRIADS of other factors. not just "raptors with biyombo" and "raptors without biyombo"
        Not too mention that Biyombo also has the benefit of a DPOY candidate starting beside him, in Serge Ibaka. Conclusion: JV is a better defender than Serge Ibaka. QED. lol.

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          How about 4th Q minutes? Also what are the games played



          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          None of that matters. Raps team DRTG over a full season was top 10 and JV played the most minutes of any front-court player that season. He didn't single-handedly sink the defense. Those are the facts.

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            Not too mention that Biyombo also has the benefit of a DPOY candidate starting beside him, in Serge Ibaka. Conclusion: JV is a better defender than Serge Ibaka. QED. lol.
            Maybe it's more Greer and Biz combo.
            You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

            When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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            • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
              You minimize the contributions of Salmons, Hansbrough and Hayes on defense. You add Amir Johnson, Patterson, Landry Fields and to a lesser extent Ross. Those are very good primary and secondary defenders. Yes, they don't have a legit rim protector like Biz but the summation of those parts cannot be denied.

              Biz was the last recourse on defense, opposing teams would hesitate driving down that path to the rim when subconsciously they know that there is that shot blocker that would eliminate the chance of a straightforward lay up.
              lol what?? landry fields barely even played that season! and we still have patterson!

              the only thing that literally makes sense in your statement is that defense is a group effort.

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              • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                It was also you deducing your argument that the 2013-14 was better defensively without Biz, lol. Do I sense hypocrisy.?


                the argument was made in that fashion to show how its a fallacy to come to such a conclusion.

                oh my god. nevermind.

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                • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                  lol what?? landry fields barely even played that season! and we still have patterson!

                  the only thing that literally makes sense in your statement is that defense is a group effort.
                  Lol. You are nitpicking players.

                  Good though that you somewhat acknowledged that it's a summation of different parts. Thanks
                  You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                  When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Not too mention that Biyombo also has the benefit of a DPOY candidate starting beside him, in Serge Ibaka. Conclusion: JV is a better defender than Serge Ibaka. QED. lol.
                    LMAO this. See christian, special1 and trex. This is the type of reasoning you guys are approaching.
                    "Stay steamy"

                    - Kobe

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                    • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                      Maybe it's more Greer and Biz combo.
                      Biz worked last season because Lowry/DD/Casey got lazy. Instead of enforcing a team defense and holding everybody accountability, they allowed Lowry & DD to dog it on defense. The rise of Lowry and DD is definitely related to the increased lax attitude on D. They are the leaders of the team and they're setting an example, with Casey being powerless to reign them in. It's quite similar to 2 seasons ago. Casey is a defensive coach - he has to be sick to his stomach when he sees 120+ points on the board from the opposition.

                      Greer might have had an influence as a respected NBA assistant getting on Lowry and DD's ass from time to time. Hard to say. Or perhaps he was better at suggesting in-game defensive adjustments than Kamlamian or Nurse?
                      Last edited by golden; Sun Jan 8, 2017, 11:28 PM.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        None of that matters. Raps team DRTG over a full season was top 10 and JV played the most minutes of any front-court player that season. He didn't single-handedly sink the defense. Those are the facts.
                        Does matter because 2pat didn't play the full season with raps. Also that JV rarely played in the 4th. I believe raps had one of the top 4th Q D that year. Which is where we the 4th came from.

                        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                        @Chr1st1anL

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                        • iblastoff wrote: View Post


                          the argument was made in that fashion to show how its a fallacy to come to such a conclusion.

                          oh my god. nevermind.
                          I do said "fit".
                          You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                          When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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                          • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                            lol what?? landry fields barely even played that season! and we still have patterson!

                            the only thing that literally makes sense in your statement is that defense is a group effort.
                            yes, and currently it's not being played as such. our 4s and 5s get hung out to dry more than any other "top" team's as far as i can tell.

                            But this is at odds with the offensive philosophy because Lowry and Derozan have to exert so much effort on that end, because Casey basically asks them to go one-on-five every posession in the 2nd half.

                            New philosophy, more balanced offensive approach, more uniform delegation of defensive responsibility and accountability and this team has all the pieces to be at the least a decent defensive team.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post
                              Biz worked last season because Lowry/DD/Casey got lazy. Instead of enforcing a team defense and holding everybody accountability, they allowed Lowry & DD to dog it on defense. The rise of Lowry and DD is definitely related to the increased lax attitude on D. They are the leaders of the team and they're setting an example, with Casey being powerless to reign them in. It's quite similar to 2 seasons ago. Casey is a defensive coach - he has to be sick to his stomach when he sees 120+ points on the board from the opposition.
                              Draymond/Klay/Leonard are hard to find two way players because their offense does not dictate the integrity and perseverance on how they consistently defend.
                              You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                              When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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                              • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                                leonard? best in the league? his defensive metrics have actually dropped the past couple of years. i would say draymond green is the better defender.




                                so you're saying OTHER PLAYERS might also need to step up to defend besides having to somehow rely on the teams center? no way.
                                DeMar and Lowry are the foundation of the team at the moment. Neither of them are elite defenders like Conley, Allen, Kawhi, Green, etc. Lowry is good but gambles a lot and is undersized, DeMar is probably slightly below average. That's the reality. So do you sit there and complain about that and keep praying they become elite defenders magically or do you put guys around them who can correct the issue?

                                Carroll is a failed signing. Was supposed to be the wing defender who could do a good job on the toughest matchup, he isn't and he can't. Barely better than DeMar on the defensive end. You need a mobile big who can protect the rim with these guys, we don't have that. Again if you're advocating blowing up the team to get a whole different core of players who defend at a high level, then cool. But if you're talking about moving forward with a DeMar+Lowry core you're going to need that mobile rim protector down low, just the reality and just the fact.

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