Everything (2016-2017) Regular Season Game Threads

[KHD]

That's some pretty generous usage of the word "play."



Ehh, I'd like an upgrade, but this team would be better if they'd just start the right guy. If they don't make a trade I expect them to sign Pat in the summer and make a public showing that he'll be the starter from now on. Not many avenues to add talent anyway, and they'll probably look to shed some salary to reduce tax costs, so I doubt there is help coming unless they pull off a big deal for a major upgrade. There won't likely be a Sully or Scola next year, so all we have to hope is they don't repeat the Siakam mistake.

nothing about dwane casey's tenure here gives me any faith that he'll learn from any of this.

[Lupe]

Their MAIN priority should be finding a 3rd star. Second should be finding a rim protector. They had an ELITE rim protector last year but they just let him walk away smh.

Might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Hassan Whiteside is on the trade market.

[DanH]

The difference between Kanter and JV defensively isn't significant at all. You keep saying it is but haven't really presented any evidence to show otherwise.

Sure I have. You've just ignored it.

For example, once again.

Kanter, DBPM by season (oldest to most recent):
-2.1
-1.2
-1.8
-2.3
-3.1
-1.4

JV, same:
+0.9
+0.2
-0.6
+0.4
-0.8

So, in JV's worst season, he's about halfway between a league average player and Kanter if you take Kanter as his best season. Using career averages, Kanter sits at -2.1 and JV sits at +0.1. JV has consistently floated around league average in defensive impact, which is not great for a C. But a Kanter has consistently been significantly below league average, which is a disaster for a C.

I can do the same in RPM and will do so later if you insist but ESPN's site is garbage so it's more work. I'd do the same for simple APM too and RAPM if I could find a functional surviving database.

Impact stats are basically the only real attempt at a catch all defensive stat, and with defence being such a system and team entwined thing, other metrics always prove to be either completely unreliable or nondescriptive, unlike impact stats which are only mostly those two things especially over small samples. We're not talking small samples though, we're talking comparing 5-6 years of data to each other.

[Lupe]

This year JV is 65th in DRPM among Cs and Kanter is 67th. Other than one year (2014-15) they've both ranked in the bottom quarter of the league's centers basically every single season that DRPM has been posted by ESPN. JV again is a little better defensively but not by any significant amount. DRPM rates JV as below average for the past 4 years and Kanter as near the worst. And for the record Monroe and Vucevic have been right around JV in those stats so my point still stands. They're all in the same category. Good and skilled offensively, could get you 20-10 if you gave them the top scoring role but below average to bad defensively.

[GLF]

If Patterson doesn't start this game, he never will. Siakam is clearly out of the rotation. Casey just abandoned the double big starting lineup with BeBe last game. You don't want to run Carroll at the 4 too much. We've now started Siakam, Carroll and BeBe at the 4. Just try it until Sully gets back, what do we have to lose?

Knowing Casey he will just go back to BeBe tonight. He HATES starting Patterson. It's actually insane at this point.

[GLF]

But at this point as long as it's not pascal starting I'm good

[DanH]

This year JV is 65th in DRPM among Cs and Kanter is 67th. Other than one year (2014-15) they've both ranked in the bottom quarter of the league's centers basically every single season that DRPM has been posted by ESPN. JV again is a little better defensively but not by any significant amount. DRPM rates JV as below average for the past 4 years and Kanter as near the worst. And for the record Monroe and Vucevic have been right around JV in those stats so my point still stands. They're all in the same category. Good and skilled offensively, could get you 20-10 if you gave them the top scoring role but below average to bad defensively.

Again, it's a matter of degree. Monroe and Vuc are much better compares for JV - they are poor defenders, not worst-in-the-league defenders. RPM is even less reliable than BPM in small samples, so this year's RPM rankings should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Kanter is a complete disaster on that end, with his entire career ranking significantly worse than JV's by a wide margin.

[DanH]

But at this point as long as it's not pascal starting I'm good

This is Casey's trick. Get us used to the worst possible option, so when he starts another non-ideal starting PF over Patterson, we're like "Oh, OK, so long as it isn't Siakam."

[Scraptor]

Knowing Casey he will just go back to BeBe tonight. He HATES starting Patterson. It's actually insane at this point.

With no Patterson I expect to see a lot of this:

[GLF]

This is Casey's trick. Get us used to the worst possible option, so when he starts another non-ideal starting PF over Patterson, we're like "Oh, OK, so long as it isn't Siakam."

Couldn't agree more. LikeI get Patterson is great with the bench but he's great with the starters too and he makes everyone in that lineup play better because of the defence and the spacing he brings. Carroll and JV both play better alongside Patterson. I have never seen a coach put the bench at so much of a higher importance than the starting line up in my life. In the playoffs the bench doesn't matter nearly as much and I wish he could see that. I know they probably promised Sully the starting job and thats why they don't want to bother starting Patterson to then have to demote him, but Sully has been injured all season and I think he would understand if he lost his starting job for that reason.

[tDotted]

Even Ginobili was a starter some years when the other 2 guard wouldn't be good enough there. The reluctance to start Pat no matter what the roster looks like is absurd.

[DanH]

Even Ginobili was a starter some years when the other 2 guard wouldn't be good enough there. The reluctance to start Pat no matter what the roster looks like is absurd.

Nevermind that the reasoning with Manu was that he needed the ball in his hands, so getting him additional minutes way from Parker made sense. Patterson fits ridiculously well with the starters where you have two high usage guards out there. If Pop had a starting lineup that desperately needed another ball handler, I doubt he brings Manu off the bench.

[S.R.]

I mean ultimately yes, the Raptors need a third legit star to really contend, potentially one better than anybody on the team right now. In the meantime the team is so much better with PP on the floor than any of his replacements, it doesn't make sense to keep him on the bench and at under 30 mpg. Guy should be a starter playing starter's minutes. Siakam should be a few minutes of energy. Bebe should be length as needed. Carroll should be the small ball 4 as needed. Patterson is better at the 4 than all those guys and shouldn't be sitting for any of them except for when he needs a breather.

[S.R.]

Is Boston already better than the Raps? They definitely have better future assets for swinging for the fences and landing a big name player at some point, and now they're also playing as well/better in the present. We've been talking a lot about getting past LBJ, are we sure that as a franchise the Raptors can outbid + outgrow Boston over the next 2-4 seasons? They're going to be direct competition for any big name trade target.

[planetmars]

The ECF all-star coach is probably on the line in this game.