Everything (2016-2017) Regular Season Game Threads

[Axel]

He's 24 though, if he's not going to be able to play big minutes now, then when will he? I mean I'm sure Casey was checking in on him to see how he was doing stamina wise and he didn't look tired out there he was playing with relentless energy.

He's never played more than 20 minutes in back to back games before in his NBA career. He now has 4 straight including on back to back nights with, more importantly, playing the last 5 of the 3rd and all of the 4th. It's the long stretch being more concerning than the overall minutes.

[Axel]

How was DeMar's historically good play "needed" after his playoff performance?

Because his post season play was shameful, especially for a guy about to get paid.

[planetmars]

Woah... Raps are playing Cavs/Warriors back to back? Intense.

[Demographic Shift]

This is true, but seriously Bebe played 16 straight minutes in the second half in 2 consecutive games...And Bebe wasn't even guarding Porzingis most of the time, he was guarding Noah and Patterson was guarding Porzingis.

There is literally no reason not to trust/play a guy who carried you through the first round and part of the second round in the Playoffs last season.

Unless he is nicked up more than is being let on. While its not the NHL and its ludicrous upper body injury updates its within the character of the Raptors to not be totally transparent about injury to their players.

[slaw]

Exactly. Bebe is the new BB.

The JV trade chatter in here tho, lmao.

Bebe has played about 6 good games in 3 years. So, of course, the Raps should trade JV......

Hey, remember when Bebe was great in two consecutive games last year? I do. Remember how he kept that up and had a terrific second half and took over the 4th big role on the.... oh, nevermind.

Let's see how Bebe looks after 40-50 games of wear and tear, playing game in and game out.

[slaw]

I remember when the problem was that the young guys weren't playing enough. Now the problem is that they're playing too much.

I thought everyone wanted to be like the Spurs where you run out the lineup that is winning and damn protocol and pretense?

Look, JV is the third best player on the team and he's going to be important to their success as the year goes on and, definitely, into the playoffs. But they've won the last three games (two tough roadies and a b2b) with Bebe being a key part of it. He's playing well, they're winning, and JV is coming off a slight injury. I really don't understand the either the "trade JV" sentiment or the "JV must play at all costs" sentiments

[Lupe]

I remember when the problem was that the young guys weren't playing enough. Now the problem is that they're playing too much.

I thought everyone wanted to be like the Spurs where you run out the lineup that is winning and damn protocol and pretense?

Look, JV is the third best player on the team and he's going to be important to their success as the year goes on and, definitely, into the playoffs. But they've won the last three games (two tough roadies and a b2b) with Bebe being a key part of it. He's playing well, they're winning, and JV is coming off a slight injury. I really don't understand the either the "trade JV" sentiment or the "JV must play at all costs" sentiments

FTR I'm not advocating trading JV right now as I don't think Bebe is good enough to start at center on a contender. I'm just saying the viability of a JV trade is potentially there if you can get a better version of what Bebe does at the same time. That's why I've said before that I think getting Noel first and then moving JV for a PF could make the team a lot better.

[Jangles]

Bebe has played about 6 good games in 3 years. So, of course, the Raps should trade JV......

Hey, remember when Bebe was great in two consecutive games last year? I do. Remember how he kept that up and had a terrific second half and took over the 4th big role on the.... oh, nevermind.

Let's see how Bebe looks after 40-50 games of wear and tear, playing game in and game out.

Remember when our 1 and 2 guard backups outplayed the starter for 1-2 games and ended up taking their minutes to end a few games? Me neither.

The trend with JV is what's most troubling. He is coming off an injury so this makes some sense but if JV is telling Casey he's 100% and he's getting his minutes cut due to a guy who has never had more than 2-3 consecutive decent games, what kind of message is this sending.

Now if we saw this happen where Lowry was benched in favour of Joseph when he struggled from time to time, it would be something to accept from Casey, but it's almost always that JV gets short handed.

[Jangles]

Changed, not handed

[lewro]

JV came out at the 4:25 mark of the 3rd quarter. The possession before Bebe got up from the bench, Noah had grabbed an offensive rebound over JV. When JV came off the court, he had a discussion with Casey at the scorer's table.

I really do think that Casey is sitting him intentionally with the caveat that if Bebe hadn't played so well, we might have seen JV again (it's also possible that Poeltl would have came in).

Casey is definitely employing a different standard for JV than any other player and I think it's simply because JV isn't the type of C that Casey wants.

All this talk of trading JV is way premature. Bebe has been hurt more than any other player on the roster over the last few years. He has played well in short stints before but then got hurt and didn't make it back into the rotation. He's a great talent to have but he hasn't proven that he can be dependable for 82 games + playoffs. Ideal backup option but not a starter.

Poeltl has proven even less and shouldn't be much of a consideration for a team that's trying to win now. Let him develop but don't move better players for a youngster to play more.

That said, if this trend continues, I wouldn't be surprised if JV asked for a trade. It's clear that despite what Masai may say, JV isn't a priority for Casey and he absolutely should be frustrated; he works his butt off, gets ignored and marginalized and then less experienced players keep "earning" the coaches trust over him. This may be the storyline of the season.

Glad Carroll sat, Powell looked better than Carroll in pretty much every aspect. Carroll's minutes should be down to a 50/50 split with Powell. Carroll is still a good player but he's coasting out there too much and the extra rest should make him more effective.

Jv sat after 8 mins vs hornet's. Think the same in the 2nd half too. He's getting the scola rotation. Not like Casey gradually tinkered, he went straight to it. Tells you how he feels.

Id rather see norm and Ross get more mins than cory and Dmc. Lowry should get more rest too.

I agree that bebe is a twig that's waiting to snap. What stands out to me is his fit. He's just not that experienced or strong. But why not trade for Noel? He averages what bebe has given us. Younger, more experienced, better version of bebe. And it might be cheap to get him. How much is delon and a 1st worth to us, given what we are competing for? Even cory hasn't looked great this year and I think norm can do the same and more.
Noel/bebe/yak. Seems our style.
Trade jv for a 4 or a 3/4

[lewro]

FTR I'm not advocating trading JV right now as I don't think Bebe is good enough to start at center on a contender. I'm just saying the viability of a JV trade is potentially there if you can get a better version of what Bebe does at the same time. That's why I've said before that I think getting Noel first and then moving JV for a PF could make the team a lot better.

Yeah, everyone (all the media, etc) was pretty quick to say the noel trade is stupid bc they looked at it as not a pf fit. I always looked at it as a center fit. Bebe is proof of that imo.
The other reason it was dismissed was bc Masai doesn't let out secrets. But we already know he approached the sixers first (according to Zach Lowe anyway). Noel is totally a Masai type player in my eyes. Hes only a yr older than Bruno.
If Masai does trade for him than i'm glad everyone said it's a stupid trade bc maybe it drives the price down and actually becomes a masai under the radar move.

[DanH]

Guy plays well against the Thunder and Knicks and we're making definitive statements about fit?

BeBe gives us a style/matchup option and a great energy big off the bench. Just like Biz gave us (in a slightly different way). Just like trading JV to make room for Biz would have been a terrible move, so too is trading JV because BeBe is playing well in that role, regardless of whether it is to make room for BeBe or some theoretical better version of him you trade for. It's great to have this flexibility and depth. That's all there is to take from this.

[Lupe]

Guy plays well against the Thunder and Knicks and we're making definitive statements about fit?

BeBe gives us a style/matchup option and a great energy big off the bench. Just like Biz gave us (in a slightly different way). Just like trading JV to make room for Biz would have been a terrible move, so too is trading JV because BeBe is playing well in that role, regardless of whether it is to make room for BeBe or some theoretical better version of him you trade for. It's great to have this flexibility and depth. That's all there is to take from this.

Not to make room for Bebe. To get a star at PF but not until we acquire a better version of the type of player that Bebe is.

Basically to me an Aldridge-Noel frontcourt is both better and a better fit than a Siakam-JV frontcourt. Especially if you can keep 2Pat and at least one of Bebe/Poeltl to come off the bench.

[golden]

I remember when the problem was that the young guys weren't playing enough. Now the problem is that they're playing too much.

I thought everyone wanted to be like the Spurs where you run out the lineup that is winning and damn protocol and pretense?

Look, JV is the third best player on the team and he's going to be important to their success as the year goes on and, definitely, into the playoffs. But they've won the last three games (two tough roadies and a b2b) with Bebe being a key part of it. He's playing well, they're winning, and JV is coming off a slight injury. I really don't understand the either the "trade JV" sentiment or the "JV must play at all costs" sentiments

Great post, slaw, I'm pretty thrilled that we're developing young players AND winning. With success under his belt and a shiny new contract, Casey has definitely loosened up on the "veterans win you games" and the "I laugh at adjustments" mantras. He looks visibly more relaxed and is coaching the same way - the body language is confident and secure. He's starting rookies and changing schemes quicker on the fly. He's closing games with Powell and Bebe. He almost looked like he was half asleep at one point when camera zoomed in on him at a timeout during 'winning time'.

Q:> Has Casey gone to the "next level" as coach, like DeMar as a player. That would be truly awesome.

[Chr1s1anL]

Remember when our 1 and 2 guard backups outplayed the starter for 1-2 games and ended up taking their minutes to end a few games? Me neither.

The trend with JV is what's most troubling. He is coming off an injury so this makes some sense but if JV is telling Casey he's 100% and he's getting his minutes cut due to a guy who has never had more than 2-3 consecutive decent games, what kind of message is this sending.

Now if we saw this happen where Lowry was benched in favour of Joseph when he struggled from time to time, it would be something to accept from Casey, but it's almost always that JV gets short handed.

Casey benched DeMar in a playoff game.

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