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  • Calm down everyone. This was a bad match up for JV defensively. That's what his coach wants out of that position the most. Now tomorrow is a better matchup for him.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      That's pretty much it. You're not really stopping the Warriors on offense. They are ranked #1 in offensive rating, which surprises nobody. So firstly, if you have to pick your poison, then you would want the ball in the hands of their "weakest" offensive player, Draymond, and turn the game into a make-or-miss affair.

      More importantly, Golden State actually sucks this season on defense. Like really suck. They are ranked #22 in defensive rating. So the obvious strategy is to attack the Warriors true weakness, which is defense. Surprisingly, the Raps are #2 in offensive rating and surprisingly not that far behind GSW, so they are the best team in the NBA to exploit GSW's real weakness. To top that off, JV is typically the Raps most efficient player on offense at USG > 20 (i.e., he needs to be guarded closely by GSW). Regardless of who you replace JV with, they are going to be less efficient or less of an offensive threat, by far.

      Putting that all together, a very reasonable and logical strategy would have been to take your chances making Draymond try to beat you on defense, and have JV try to beat Draymond on offense.
      I don't agree with this strategy at all.

      So rather than trying to play a high enough level of defense to stop/slow the Warriors you'd rather just try to outscore them with 2s instead of 3s? Yeah, that's not going to work.

      Look at the NBA Finals for example. In every single game the Warriors lost they were under 100 except for 1 where they scored 101. In the games they won they went 100+ every time. Getting into a shootout with them is not a good idea at all.

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      • rocwell wrote: View Post
        Not sure what you're suggesting here, but if you want to play Bebe for 30 minutes... Finish this sentence yourself.

        I get it why Casey benches JV against a small lineup. Fair enough. But why the hell you only give yor big man only 2-3 post up opportunities against the team w/o a true big??! That's what I want to know. Our rotation.. is okay, I guess. For now. But the way we're using Jonas when he's on the floor is fucking mind-blowing and well, STUPID.
        The Casey/DeRozan/Lowry core hasn't changed it's approach over the past three seasons, and I don't expect it to. This team continues to live and die with the shooting % of those two players. Thankfully DeRozan has been more aggressive and intelligent in his approach this season, and his shooting % echoes that.

        When the shots aren't falling from those two players and/or they run into a team with defenders to contain them, the Raptors are unable to find an effective alternative scoring option, since they never make the effort to do so. I understand that the two-headed monster approach works well for the majority of the regular season, but just as has been said around here for the past few years, Casey has never bothered to try and establish other scoring options that could be utilized when the time comes for those options to be needed.

        After three years of hoping for and discussing a desire for change, I've given up on this core being willing and/or capable of being more than it is. I cheer them on and enjoy the wins, even enjoying the hot start DeRozan has personally been off to, but deep down I fear the same concern/weakness will ultimately rear its ugly head.

        I wasn't able to watch the game and my PVR decided not to tape the game I had recorded, but I look at the box score and see JV with 18 minutes played and 6/6 shooting, and am not surprised that Casey didn't exploit that offensive mismatch. Yes, I know the arguments on the defensive side, when it comes to JV and small-ball, but good teams/coaches find ways to control the game to their benefit, rather than simply reacting to the opposition. I also know GS is a good team, yatta yatta yatta.... but this has been Casey's MO for years, and unfortunately I don't see that changing with the current core.

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        • Lupe wrote: View Post
          I don't agree with this strategy at all.

          So rather than trying to play a high enough level of defense to stop/slow the Warriors you'd rather just try to outscore them with 2s instead of 3s? Yeah, that's not going to work.

          Look at the NBA Finals for example. In every single game the Warriors lost they were under 100 except for 1 where they scored 101. In the games they won they went 100+ every time. Getting into a shootout with them is not a good idea at all.
          Last season is irrelevant because Warriors are a completely different team defensively this year. Not even remotely close to previous seasons where they ranked: 4th, 1st and 5th in the NBA by team DRTG. Durant changes their identity considerably. They will probably get back to being better defensively, but for now, they can be beaten on that end.

          And that strategy actually worked against the Cavs in the playoffs who came in hotter than any team shooting 3's and the Raps turned it into a make-or-miss contest and they missed.

          On the contrary, it's one thing to 'say' we should have stopped the Warriors mega death lineup, but what strategy do you suggest to actually do that?
          Last edited by golden; Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:29 PM.

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          • special1 wrote: View Post
            Having read through multiple threads and postings by the same group of posters I've come to an obvious conclusion....

            JV is overrated by some on here.

            Get over it. You'd swear he was a perennial all-star/superstar with all the crying. Chill out....11 games in guys.
            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            Calm down everyone. This was a bad match up for JV defensively. That's what his coach wants out of that position the most. Now tomorrow is a better matchup for him.

            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
            The 2 derozan fanboys telling everybody else to calm down. Woo 30 point streak!!1!

            Once again for the reading impaired: if casey wants to bench jv when draymond is center fine whatever. We couldn't stop anybody anyways but that's his deal. The main issue is 6 for 6 on good looking possessions then basically being completely ignored in his last 10 minutes of play. If he's in, and he's not touching in the ball vs zaza pachulia, you might as well not play him at all.
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              Last season is irrelevant because Warriors are a completely different team defensively this year. Not even remotely close to previous seasons where they ranked: 4th, 1st and 5th in the NBA by team DRTG. Durant changes their identity considerably. They will probably get back to being better defensively, but for now, they can be beaten on that end.
              Durant isn't really the issue himself. I think this proves that the real defensive anchor of those teams was Andrew Bogut, not Draymond Green.

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              • Despite the obsession on this board with offense (primarily passing it more to one guy), the story remains pretty consistent for this Raptors team: when they defend, they win and when they don't defend, they lose. Cavs shot 53% from the field. Warriors shot 58%. You don't need to see any other stats. Hell, you don't even need to watch the game. You can't allow good teams to shoot close to 50%+ and win those games.

                One worrying (and related) development through the first 11 games: Raps were 8th in DRB% last year. 26th this year. This was something that plagued them in 2014-15. Might just be an anomaly but it's troubling that this issue is back despite the defensive scheme remaining largely unchanged....

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                • slaw wrote: View Post
                  Despite the obsession on this board with offense (primarily passing it more to one guy), the story remains pretty consistent for this Raptors team: when they defend, they win and when they don't defend, they lose. Cavs shot 53% from the field. Warriors shot 58%. You don't need to see any other stats. Hell, you don't even need to watch the game. You can't allow good teams to shoot close to 50%+ and win those games.

                  One worrying (and related) development through the first 11 games: Raps were 8th in DRB% last year. 26th this year. This was something that plagued them in 2014-15. Might just be an anomaly but it's troubling that this issue is back despite the defensive scheme remaining largely unchanged....
                  I know everybody is going to point to Biz being gone, but Andy Greer is also gone. A defensive scheme is really just a framework. The subtle tweaks and adjustments in real-time by an experienced defensive coordinator like Greer could have some effect. I was thinking along the same lines that these games were highly reminiscent of 2014-15 where the Raps tried to conserve energy on defense and just out-score everybody on offense. Even some of the scrambling D has come back.

                  I hope Casey can get this horse back in the bottle before the genie leaves the barn.

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                  • tDotted wrote: View Post
                    Durant isn't really the issue himself. I think this proves that the real defensive anchor of those teams was Andrew Bogut, not Draymond Green.
                    Bogut's defense has been highly underrated for years. Don't forget Harrison Barnes primarily role was 3 & D, while Durant always had a wing defender (Thabo, Roberson, etc...) to take the tough assignments.
                    Last edited by golden; Thu Nov 17, 2016, 01:04 PM.

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                    • Comment


                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        I know everybody is going to point to Biz being gone, but Andy Greer is also gone. A defensive scheme is really just a framework. The subtle tweaks and adjustments in real-time by an experienced defensive coordinator like Greer could have some effect. I was thinking along the same lines that these games were highly reminiscent of 2014-15 where the Raps tried to conserve energy on defense and just out-score everybody on offense. Even some of the scrambling D has come back.

                        I hope Casey can get this horse back in the bottle before the genie leaves the barn.
                        Well, I wouldn't be too fussed at the moment. The Lebrons and Warriors are the best 2 teams in the league by a mile and the Raps came within one or two plays of beating Cleveland at home and hung in on an impossible back-to-back, so it's not the end of the world. At the same time, the rebounding problem was a big (and undersold) issue two seasons ago, so it seems like something to at least note.

                        As for Greer, I don't really know how many in-game adjustments he made or conveyed or implemented. I suspect there's far less of that goes on than we think there is (just given the sheer number of games you can't always be tweaking things or guys will get confused) but you might be right.

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                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          The 2 derozan fanboys telling everybody else to calm down. Woo 30 point streak!!1!

                          Once again for the reading impaired: if casey wants to bench jv when draymond is center fine whatever. We couldn't stop anybody anyways but that's his deal. The main issue is 6 for 6 on good looking possessions then basically being completely ignored in his last 10 minutes of play. If he's in, and he's not touching in the ball vs zaza pachulia, you might as well not play him at all.
                          Zaza Pachulia played 16 mins in this game ..... a whopping 16 minutes!

                          With regards to the Derozan fanboys comment.....don't be mad at us because we actually picked a star player as our favourite Raptor a long time ago. At least Demar is looking like a perennial all-star for the foreseeable future.....You're a fanboy of someone who can't even get on the floor because of #matchups......How's that working out for you?

                          The new definition of insanity is......posting the same thing over and over again and hoping Casey and the players will read it now?

                          Come on.....JV was never going to see much playing time against GSW. Face it.....He's not the #1 or #2 option on this team. We have legit all-stars on this team in Demar and Kyle.

                          This isn't anything new to complain about, even if you want us to believe that this time is different.

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                          • For the Demar fanboys, it's more important that their beloved player scores 30+ than the team winning.
                            "Stay steamy"

                            - Kobe

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                            • Like I've said before just trade JV and get something good for him.
                              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                              • special1 wrote: View Post
                                Zaza Pachulia played 16 mins in this game ..... a whopping 16 minutes!

                                With regards to the Derozan fanboys comment.....don't be mad at us because we actually picked a star player as our favourite Raptor a long time ago. At least Demar is looking like a perennial all-star for the foreseeable future.....You're a fanboy of someone who can't even get on the floor because of #matchups......How's that working out for you?

                                The new definition of insanity is......posting the same thing over and over again and hoping Casey and the players will read it now?

                                Come on.....JV was never going to see much playing time against GSW. Face it.....He's not the #1 or #2 option on this team. We have legit all-stars on this team in Demar and Kyle.

                                This isn't anything new to complain about, even if you want us to believe that this time is different.
                                Just because it is nothing new to complain about doesn't mean we can't complain about it.

                                And just because he's not the 1 or 2 option doesn't mean he shouldn't be used as an option when he has a favourable matchup on the offensive end.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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