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  • Barolt wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I genuinely felt like he played differently tonight. He averages 8.2 POTENTIAL assists per game this year.

    He had 9 assists tonight.

    So, uh... that math doesn't work out if that's just his usual.
    I think Christian is right. It seemed like almost every time he delivered a potential assist this game it was converted into a real one. I don't think he played that differently from normal, he does look for his teammates off drives it's just that today everybody was on fire, particularly from 3 so his assist numbers shot up.

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    • Lupe wrote: View Post
      I think Christian is right. It seemed like almost every time he delivered a potential assist this game it was converted into a real one. I don't think he played that differently from normal, he does look for his teammates off drives it's just that today everybody was on fire, particularly from 3 so his assist numbers shot up.
      He averages 34.4 passes per game, had 36 this game. The quality might be nicer though, as he averages 8.5 potential assists and had 12 this game. Which is reflected by 9/12 of them going in.

      Pace and D might account for the slightly higher potential assists vs normal passes. But yeah you can't expect guys to hit 75% of your potential assists.

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      • Lupe wrote: View Post
        I think Christian is right. It seemed like almost every time he delivered a potential assist this game it was converted into a real one. I don't think he played that differently from normal, he does look for his teammates off drives it's just that today everybody was on fire, particularly from 3 so his assist numbers shot up.
        Actually, the one player whom I thought DID play differently was Carroll -he made many more cuts into the lane and along the baseline than I remember him usually doing, and I think he was the source of a few of Demar's assists

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        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
          He was outstanding. I've been pretty critical of him in years past but this kind of consistent effort shows I was wrong. If he can keep it up all season he'll be exactly the type of key 3-and-D piece we'd hoped he would become.

          He's become kind of rangy and slippery, dangerous like a snake in the best way possible.

          Also Zainab, I can't remember if this is your first game thread or not, I think it is, but tradition dictates you keep making them until we lose.
          I've made threads in pasts seasons, but this is my first game thread where we have won. Lol
          Let's go streaking, boys!

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          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
            He averages 34.4 passes per game, had 36 this game. The quality might be nicer though, as he averages 8.5 potential assists and had 12 this game. Which is reflected by 9/12 of them going in.

            Pace and D might account for the slightly higher potential assists vs normal passes. But yeah you can't expect guys to hit 75% of your potential assists.
            I'm not sure if you can even use the most advanced stats to distinguish certain type of passes. Even Synergy can't distinguish between a pass that is consciously intended to get a shooter in rhythm or find cutters as a first option vs. a spontaneous awkward bailout pass as a last resort when DeMar or Kyle is trapped. I call it the Allen Iverson pass - yes, A.I. got a ton of assists and made a ton of passes, but a lot of those passes were bailouts that put his teammates in bad situations to shoot and out of rhythm, even if the shot was open.

            SVG brought up a point about one fundamental flaws in using stats for basketball that you also have to know the player or coaches intention on the play and priority of various options. That's an important piece of information that resides only in the brain of the player and coach, and can only be assumed or inferred by us basement dwellers.
            Last edited by golden; Thu Nov 24, 2016, 08:49 AM.

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            • Scraptor wrote: View Post
              He averages 34.4 passes per game, had 36 this game. The quality might be nicer though, as he averages 8.5 potential assists and had 12 this game. Which is reflected by 9/12 of them going in.

              Pace and D might account for the slightly higher potential assists vs normal passes. But yeah you can't expect guys to hit 75% of your potential assists.
              His teammates would have had to hit only 33% of their assist chances for DD to get his typical 4 assists instead of 9, and on the season his teammates hit just under 50%. So on this night, if his teammates hit at only their typical rate, he would still have posted 6 assists, 50% more than his typical game. So, that's good! Hopefully he can keep it up (he really has been improving with the passing as the year has gone on, but tonight was a different level IMO).
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Ebonhawke wrote: View Post
                Actually, the one player whom I thought DID play differently was Carroll -he made many more cuts into the lane and along the baseline than I remember him usually doing, and I think he was the source of a few of Demar's assists
                Raps did a decent job of cutting all around - both on DD's isolations and JV's post ups. Need to see that consistently and we'll keep seeing improved passing numbers.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  It's a bit of both. For sure, those 3 veterans (JYD, CoJo, 2Pat) haven't been making shots. No argument there. But DeMar looked like he was giving up the ball much earlier tonight with the purpose to get his teammates involved earlier in the possession. That seemed fairly evident and derives at least 3 side benefits: (1) giving confidence to his teammates, (2) having the shooters ready to shoot, (3) DeMar can have conserve energy for defense.

                  In my opinion, the Raps defensive problems are also linked to the offense - with the root cause being energy. If Raps can spread out the load on offense, then Lowry and DD have more energy for defense and the offense also becomes harder to defend. Otherwise, you need a super high energy defensive rim protector like Biz who allows Lowry to rest on D, because we need his KLOE heroics on O.
                  Did you see my article I posted on Tuesday? Same conclusion - need to spread the load on offence to allow everyone to play with energy on defence.

                  In any case, defence tonight looked better than it has in ages, and DD was down at 28% usage for the night (close to his average last season). Actually, look at the spread of the offence last night:

                  DD 28%
                  DC 26%
                  KL 25%
                  TR 25%
                  JV 23%
                  CJ 19%

                  That's a multi-pronged attack if I've ever seen one.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                    He averages 34.4 passes per game, had 36 this game. The quality might be nicer though, as he averages 8.5 potential assists and had 12 this game. Which is reflected by 9/12 of them going in.

                    Pace and D might account for the slightly higher potential assists vs normal passes. But yeah you can't expect guys to hit 75% of your potential assists.
                    I'm not expecting guys to hit 75% of his potential assists. I'm just saying DeMar didn't play that differently from normal when it comes to moving the ball. The jump in assists was a result of guys shooting a really high percentage off his passes and Houston's lacklustre if not non-existent defense. I don't think it's fair to point out every time DeMar has a high assist game "that's what he should be doing" his primary role is to score and he does use the attention he draws to find teammates. He's consistently been at around 4 or 5 assists per game the past few seasons, right up near the top of the league for his position.

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                    • Ebonhawke wrote: View Post
                      Actually, the one player whom I thought DID play differently was Carroll -he made many more cuts into the lane and along the baseline than I remember him usually doing, and I think he was the source of a few of Demar's assists
                      Yeah this is a great point too. Hitting a guy on a cut for a layup is basically a guaranteed assist so that definitely helped bring up his numbers.

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                      • Lupe wrote: View Post
                        I'm not expecting guys to hit 75% of his potential assists. I'm just saying DeMar didn't play that differently from normal when it comes to moving the ball. The jump in assists was a result of guys shooting a really high percentage off his passes and Houston's lacklustre if not non-existent defense. I don't think it's fair to point out every time DeMar has a high assist game "that's what he should be doing" his primary role is to score and he does use the attention he draws to find teammates. He's consistently been at around 4 or 5 assists per game the past few seasons, right up near the top of the league for his position.
                        I would still maintain that tonight was different on more than just 'guys hitting shots'.

                        Most nights, at some point during the 3rd quarter, at least a few guys 'check out' during plays when DeMar is dribbling the ball. They stand around looking disinterested, or start going back on defense before a shot is even up. Ross does this, Carroll does this, I've seen CoJo do this.

                        I didn't see anyone do that tonight, they were cutting, screening and moving when DeMar had the ball, because they thought they might get it.
                        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                        • Barolt wrote: View Post
                          I would still maintain that tonight was different on more than just 'guys hitting shots'.

                          Most nights, at some point during the 3rd quarter, at least a few guys 'check out' during plays when DeMar is dribbling the ball. They stand around looking disinterested, or start going back on defense before a shot is even up. Ross does this, Carroll does this, I've seen CoJo do this.

                          I didn't see anyone do that tonight, they were cutting, screening and moving when DeMar had the ball, because they thought they might get it.
                          He didn't make more passes than normal or play that differently, just guys got in better positions and shot the ball better particularly Carroll. If he had 3-5 assists today I don't think this narrative gets created. He's not a player who's going to get 8 or 9 assists on a regular basis.

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                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            He didn't make more passes than normal or play that differently, just guys got in better positions and shot the ball better particularly Carroll. If he had 3-5 assists today I don't think this narrative gets created. He's not a player who's going to get 8 or 9 assists on a regular basis.
                            Agree to disagree here. I felt like he played differently, and it impacted the game for us.

                            I'm not expecting him to get 8 or 9 assists regularly, but I do think he can make a conscious effort to involve guys, and not as a last resort, regularly. And I think that makes a massive difference.
                            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                            • Barolt wrote: View Post
                              Agree to disagree here. I felt like he played differently, and it impacted the game for us.

                              I'm not expecting him to get 8 or 9 assists regularly, but I do think he can make a conscious effort to involve guys, and not as a last resort, regularly. And I think that makes a massive difference.
                              He does make a conscious effort to involve his teammates when he plays.

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                Did you see my article I posted on Tuesday? Same conclusion - need to spread the load on offence to allow everyone to play with energy on defence.

                                In any case, defence tonight looked better than it has in ages, and DD was down at 28% usage for the night (close to his average last season). Actually, look at the spread of the offence last night:

                                DD 28%
                                DC 26%
                                KL 25%
                                TR 25%
                                JV 23%
                                CJ 19%

                                That's a multi-pronged attack if I've ever seen one.
                                Where do you write mate?

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