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  • rocwell wrote: View Post
    I'm not looking at any stats... Casey said they had to hide DeRozan until this season. He still got a long way to go to fix his shortcomings, but he's much much better than 2014 DeMar. That gap between his defence and offence is closing.
    Don't agree with this. I agree he's improved defensively since 2014, but his offensive improvements have clearly been greater than any improvement on the defensive end, which means the gap has actually widened. He's legitimately in Kobe territory offensively this year.

    People are going to say that's blasphemous or whatever, but looking at the numbers and even his play style it's fairly accurate. Aside from Kobe's insane years in 2006 and 2007 where he was carrying some really bad players. DD's on pace for about 9 offensive win shares which was fairly standard for Kobe. TS%, REB%, oRTG are in the same ballpark, the assist percentage is a little low but so is the turnover percentage. And 28-5-4 is a Kobe-esque line, and he's actually scoring more per 36 than Kobe did in any season except 2005-06.

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    • Lupe wrote: View Post
      Don't agree with this. I agree he's improved defensively since 2014, but his offensive improvements have clearly been greater than any improvement on the defensive end, which means the gap has actually widened. He's legitimately in Kobe territory offensively this year.

      People are going to say that's blasphemous or whatever, but looking at the numbers and even his play style it's fairly accurate. Aside from Kobe's insane years in 2006 and 2007 where he was carrying some really bad players. DD's on pace for about 9 offensive win shares which was fairly standard for Kobe. TS%, REB%, oRTG are in the same ballpark, the assist percentage is a little low but so is the turnover percentage. And 28-5-4 is a Kobe-esque line, and he's actually scoring more per 36 than Kobe did in any season except 2005-06.
      Demar is currently at .183 WS/48 - a really good number. Kobe had a 10 year stretch where he beat that 9 times. Demar may be in the territory this year but Kobe's longevity (and slightly more prolific) still keep that from being a serious conversation. And that isn't even talking defence.

      The other big difference thus far has been impact in the playoffs. Demar's best WS/48 is 0.9 (Nets series) while Kobe was in the .140-.150 range or higher pretty much his entire career.

      Demar is currently playing great but he's got a long way to go before any Kobe comparisons can be taken remotely seriously.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        The Warriors didn't miss a whole lot last night. JV grabbed a third of all available defensive rebounds, well above his average rate. He only grabbed 10% of available offensive boards, you'd like more like 15%, but not exactly a terrible rebounding performance.
        Ya as a bit of an old school eye test guy at least as one game goes, I agree with Keon. A lot of tipping to himself. He should be grabbing that ball and ripping it. That Is how you rebound. Look at Lowry. 5'10. Rebounds like a mf'er. When JV is playing well / like a beast, he is ripping those boards and taking arms and hands with him. Maybe it's health / spring. But he should have been physically dominant last night and wasn't.

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        • tDotted wrote: View Post
          Looking at other rosters, JV straight up wouldn't have much value around the league.
          I couldn't disagree more.

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          • rocwell wrote: View Post
            I agree. 5 position is undergoing a revolution. It's only a matter of time until we'll see more KAT-type, Porzingis players in the league.
            Thr problem is JV isn't that type of player.

            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
            @Chr1st1anL

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            • Axel wrote: View Post
              Demar is currently at .183 WS/48 - a really good number. Kobe had a 10 year stretch where he beat that 9 times. Demar may be in the territory this year but Kobe's longevity (and slightly more prolific) still keep that from being a serious conversation. And that isn't even talking defence.

              The other big difference thus far has been impact in the playoffs. Demar's best WS/48 is 0.9 (Nets series) while Kobe was in the .140-.150 range or higher pretty much his entire career.

              Demar is currently playing great but he's got a long way to go before any Kobe comparisons can be taken remotely seriously.
              WS is very much a team stat. Kobe had some really good teammates.
              If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                Thr problem is JV isn't that type of player.

                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                I wasn't talking about JV tho

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                • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                  WS is very much a team stat. Kobe had some really good teammates.
                  He did but he was also the best player on many of those teams. It's not a be-all catch-all but Kobe was still a bit better offensively and was so for a very long time.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • Axel wrote: View Post
                    Demar is currently at .183 WS/48 - a really good number. Kobe had a 10 year stretch where he beat that 9 times. Demar may be in the territory this year but Kobe's longevity (and slightly more prolific) still keep that from being a serious conversation. And that isn't even talking defence.

                    The other big difference thus far has been impact in the playoffs. Demar's best WS/48 is 0.9 (Nets series) while Kobe was in the .140-.150 range or higher pretty much his entire career.

                    Demar is currently playing great but he's got a long way to go before any Kobe comparisons can be taken remotely seriously.
                    I didn't make any career-wise comparisons. "He's legitimately in Kobe territory offensively this year"

                    Also you can't use WS/48 when I was only talking about offense, that incorporates defensive win shares as well. DeMar is on pace for about 8.7 OWS this season (he gets about .144 per 48) which is right in line with most of Kobe's years except his very best ones. And that is in less minutes btw for the most part.
                    Last edited by Lupe; Thu Dec 29, 2016, 03:43 PM.

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                    • big boi wrote: View Post
                      I couldn't disagree more.
                      JV is a somewhat better version of Greg Monroe, who's been on the trade block for some time now.
                      If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                      • Axel wrote: View Post
                        Actually the gap could be larger because of how much better is offence is from then.
                        Good point. His offence has improved. One summer I'd like to see him train all summer with Norm. Or just watch film. Or go to defence 101. Get in a stance and move your legs, square up and try to stay in front of your man. Demar still plays turnstile man to man defence for the most part. he'll never be a great player otherwise and he'll continue to be dominated by great players like Paul George every playoffs.

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                        • Lupe wrote: View Post
                          Don't agree with this. I agree he's improved defensively since 2014, but his offensive improvements have clearly been greater than any improvement on the defensive end, which means the gap has actually widened. He's legitimately in Kobe territory offensively this year.

                          People are going to say that's blasphemous or whatever, but looking at the numbers and even his play style it's fairly accurate. Aside from Kobe's insane years in 2006 and 2007 where he was carrying some really bad players. DD's on pace for about 9 offensive win shares which was fairly standard for Kobe. TS%, REB%, oRTG are in the same ballpark, the assist percentage is a little low but so is the turnover percentage. And 28-5-4 is a Kobe-esque line, and he's actually scoring more per 36 than Kobe did in any season except 2005-06.
                          Kobe was a superb defensive player. That's half the game. If Michael Jordan wasn't 1st team all defence he wouldn't have been the greatest player of all time. And Leonard wouldn't be an MVP candidate. It's half the damn game. And Demar is flawed offensively too. What did SI have Demar as 20th percentile on D? Guess they're not sold on the improvement, or that he is an average to above average defender.

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                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            I didn't make any career-wise comparisons. "He's legitimately in Kobe territory offensively this year"

                            Also you can't use WS/48 when I was only talking about offense, that incorporates defensive win shares as well. DeMar is on pace for about 8.7 OWS this season (he gets about .144 per 48) which is right in line with most of Kobe's years except his very best ones. And that is in less minutes btw for the most part.
                            Whoops, I didn't see the "offensive" win shares in your post. I thought you were solely using WS.

                            I still think career wise needs to be a factor when discussing great seasons. Otherwise a goalie like Jim Carey is up there with the rest of them. Multiple seasons of great play and the conversation has some merit. The fact that it's moved from blasphemy to possible in the future is a huge leap in of itself.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • big boi wrote: View Post
                              Good point. His offence has improved. One summer I'd like to see him train all summer with Norm. Or just watch film. Or go to defence 101. Get in a stance and move your legs, square up and try to stay in front of your man. Demar still plays turnstile man to man defence for the most part. he'll never be a great player otherwise and he'll continue to be dominated by great players like Paul George every playoffs.
                              Yeah the defence is frustrating since it's such a huge part of winning basketball but he has improved. He'll never be a stopper but he should be able to keep guys honest or at least force some contested shots. It's the blown coverages that lead to wide open attempts at the rim that drive me mad.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • big boi wrote: View Post
                                Kobe was a superb defensive player. That's half the game. If Michael Jordan wasn't 1st team all defence he wouldn't have been the greatest player of all time. And Leonard wouldn't be an MVP candidate. It's half the damn game. And Demar is flawed offensively too. What did SI have Demar as 20th percentile on D? Guess they're not sold on the improvement, or that he is an average to above average defender.
                                Superb isn't an accurate description of Kobe defensively, his defense is often overrated. He was a good defender though, better than DeMar for sure that's not debatable.

                                I've always thought that prime Wade was actually more similar to Jordan than Kobe was but that's just me.

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