Everything (2016-2017) Regular Season Game Threads

[KeonClark]

Safe to call this one a must win, to keep any hopes of 3rd seed alive.

[tDotted]

I agree,

Joey give me a 1 week ban if we lose

2 months.

We've been through this rodeo before, you've gotta step up this time around.

[lewro]

dude, nobody ever disagreed with having JV play some time with the 2nd unit guys. people have disagreed with you specifically because you kept going on about removing him from the starting lineup in favour of... who, exactly?

before you say we should start ibaka at the 5, keep in mind that would imply playing him for like 18 minutes per game there, which is definitely a way to wear him down and get killed on the glass in the process.

Anyways none of this matters. Dwane casey is a horrible coach to begin with, and they've given up on him to make matters even worse.

I like how Scott Brooks, aka "Secrit plays coach", now runs a team that has fantastic ball movement, while Casey just sits there spouting off hashtags like #PoundTheRock and #RideOrDie.

I'm not the only one that has mentioned playing JV 2nd unit and you and Dan are the main people that have argued against it (seems it's just you now?).
I advocated for starting JV (especially vs Gortat) but after that to stagger the lineup so that he got a look with the 2nd unit. Hopefully that would increase his usage/usefulness.
What I "went on" about was bumping yak ahead of bebe (which seems to have happened).
I think I'm pretty balanced that I applaud JV when he does well and criticize him when he doesn't. You think you're balanced?
Depending on matchup serge is fine for extended run at the 5. Gortat only played 18 mins last night. I think serge can handle any other matchup on the wiz at 5. He played 36mins and looked strong the whole game. He's a big boy.
We won the rebounding battle 57-50. We've trended upwards in rebounding greatly since the trade. We've avg 53.5 vs 42.5 on the season and 46.5 for #1 nuggets.

[Uncle_Si]

Im such a hopeless fan, against all odds and evidence I have a gut feeling the Raps will pull this one out.

[consmap]

Ahh hell no

[LJ2]

Let's see how the Raptors....wait for it...ADJUST

[DanH]

I'm not the only one that has mentioned playing JV 2nd unit and you and Dan are the main people that have argued against it (seems it's just you now?).
I advocated for starting JV (especially vs Gortat) but after that to stagger the lineup so that he got a look with the 2nd unit. Hopefully that would increase his usage/usefulness.
What I "went on" about was bumping yak ahead of bebe (which seems to have happened).
I think I'm pretty balanced that I applaud JV when he does well and criticize him when he doesn't. You think you're balanced?
Depending on matchup serge is fine for extended run at the 5. Gortat only played 18 mins last night. I think serge can handle any other matchup on the wiz at 5. He played 36mins and looked strong the whole game. He's a big boy.
We won the rebounding battle 57-50. We've trended upwards in rebounding greatly since the trade. We've avg 53.5 vs 42.5 on the season and 46.5 for #1 nuggets.

When did I ever argue against JV getting time off the bench? Once Ibaka was established as a part time C, JV getting minutes with the bench was obvious, removing the need for BeBe or Poeltl at all. You still don't want to have Ibaka playing many minutes against starting C's (like Gortat). It's really easy to build a big man rotation where one of JV or Ibaka is on the floor at all times with both starting - heck we do that with DD and KL and they both start. Do that with your star backcourt and your quality starting big man pair and you've got a pretty solid rotation. Now, with KL out, it's even more important to have that quality scorer in the C spot every minute of the game (it would really help Wright to have a PnR threat to play with, either one really).

[DanH]

Isn't 2pat a starter though?

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Sure, but no one really cares if Carroll or Pat (role playing starting quality shooters) are there to "help" the bench. The bench needs primary scorers, which I think is what he meant by starter. With no longer having the option of rolling out KL or DD for 48 minutes, that bench unit needs one of JV or Ibaka out there to be the focal point of the offensive threat. They just can't survive with Wright/Poeltl pick and rolls and Powell driving headlong into traffic. Give the bench a real screen option (JV or Ibaka, depending how you want to structure the rest of the Q), space the floor with Tucker and Patterson, and run screen action for the two young guards (Wright and Powell). No ISO, occasionally post up the scoring big, screen screen screen.

[lewro]

When did I ever argue against JV getting time off the bench? Once Ibaka was established as a part time C, JV getting minutes with the bench was obvious, removing the need for BeBe or Poeltl at all. You still don't want to have Ibaka playing many minutes against starting C's (like Gortat). It's really easy to build a big man rotation where one of JV or Ibaka is on the floor at all times with both starting - heck we do that with DD and KL and they both start. Do that with your star backcourt and your quality starting big man pair and you've got a pretty solid rotation. Now, with KL out, it's even more important to have that quality scorer in the C spot every minute of the game (it would really help Wright to have a PnR threat to play with, either one really).

Yes, I agree with this, except in small part, a consideration for yak in specific situations. Convos get muddled between threads and members so no use to dig delve back. IIRC you had made comments about our long search to pair JV with a stretch 4 and argued against splitting the pairing now that we finally have that complimentary piece. Seems that is not the case, based on the above, which is an opinion that I share. Hopefully, JV will be a focused option on O, with the 2nd unit.
I'd add that Wright and yak worked well together in PNR at the NCAA level. That's a unique aspect to the roster that I'd like to see developed in the future.

[DanH]

Yes, I agree with this, except in small part, a consideration for yak in specific situations. Convos get muddled between threads and members so no use to dig delve back. IIRC you had made comments about our long search to pair JV with a stretch 4 and argued against splitting the pairing now that we finally have that complimentary piece. Seems that is not the case, based on the above, which is an opinion that I share. Hopefully, JV will be a focused option on O, with the 2nd unit.
I'd add that Wright and yak worked well together in PNR at the NCAA level. That's a unique aspect to the roster that I'd like to see developed in the future.

What? I said we finally got a starting PF who can start next to our starting C, and as such, we should start them together. I've never in my life argued that JV and Ibaka should spend all their minutes together, that makes no sense. JV should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with Pat. Pat should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with JV. And Ibaka should be playing about half his minutes with JV, half with Pat. Easy peasy. Ibaka' "roughly half" will be closer to like 45%, as he'll likely get some minutes with Tucker and Carroll in the frontcourt with him, but he also plays more minutes than the other two so that makes sense.

Poelt and Wright as a PnR option is a nice one - for the future. Next year and going forward, they might be able to provide offence for bench units. Do not want to rely on it this year, though.

[KHD]

What? I said we finally got a starting PF who can start next to our starting C, and as such, we should start them together. I've never in my life argued that JV and Ibaka should spend all their minutes together, that makes no sense. JV should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with Pat. Pat should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with JV. And Ibaka should be playing about half his minutes with JV, half with Pat. Easy peasy. Ibaka' "roughly half" will be closer to like 45%, as he'll likely get some minutes with Tucker and Carroll in the frontcourt with him, but he also plays more minutes than the other two so that makes sense.

Poelt and Wright as a PnR option is a nice one - for the future. Next year and going forward, they might be able to provide offence for bench units. Do not want to rely on it this year, though.

i have no idea why people are in such a hurry to create another hole in our starting lineup when we've finally filled the all-devouring void that was our PF spot. it will never cease to baffle me.

[Uncle_Si]

i have no idea why people are in such a hurry to create another hole in our starting lineup when we've finally filled the all-devouring void that was our PF spot. it will never cease to baffle me.

I don't think we fully read posts.

[lewro]

What? I said we finally got a starting PF who can start next to our starting C, and as such, we should start them together. I've never in my life argued that JV and Ibaka should spend all their minutes together, that makes no sense. JV should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with Pat. Pat should be playing about half his minutes with Ibaka, half with JV. And Ibaka should be playing about half his minutes with JV, half with Pat. Easy peasy. Ibaka' "roughly half" will be closer to like 45%, as he'll likely get some minutes with Tucker and Carroll in the frontcourt with him, but he also plays more minutes than the other two so that makes sense.

Poelt and Wright as a PnR option is a nice one - for the future. Next year and going forward, they might be able to provide offence for bench units. Do not want to rely on it this year, though.

Reliance is an exaggeration. I'd give it a look in this last set of games tho. Last night was a farce. Cut your loses at a certain point. Ibaka could have been pulled after 30 mins and sub in yak for the last 4-6.
With the payroll the way it looks to be this summer, management needs to make informed decisions on personnel and low usage players need a taste of future expectations. IF we have to move on from Cory and/or JV, it be a good idea to know what is behind them. I think we only have a glimpse of that picture atm.

As I said, I agree more or less re: the min distribution at C. 24mins +/-4-6 for JV based on matchup/performance is what I've discussed in the past.

[DanH]

Reliance is an exaggeration. I'd give it a look in this last set of games tho. Last night was a farce. Cut your loses at a certain point. Ibaka could have been pulled after 30 mins and sub in yak for the last 4-6.
With the payroll the way it looks to be this summer, management needs to make informed decisions on personnel and low usage players need a taste of future expectations. IF we have to move on from Cory and/or JV, it be a good idea to know what is behind them. I think we only have a glimpse of that picture atm.

As I said, I agree more or less re: the min distribution at C. 24mins +/-4-6 for JV based on matchup/performance is what I've discussed in the past.

Sure, I have no issue with Yak playing in garbage time.

But I also think you are never going to get a real picture of those depth pieces just by playing them for a couple months. Teams take a while to scout and adjust - BeBe looked fantastic for the first half of the year, not so much anymore. Reality is, whether they play Yak a lot down the stretch, or Wright (who is getting minutes because of Lowry) they'll still be operating blind as to how those players will adjust to being scouted next year. Better IMO to focus on the upcoming playoff run, and get a better feel for how key pieces fit together, like JV and Ibaka, or Ibaka and Pat, or Tucker versus Carroll and whether Powell can consistently contribute.

If you think we agree on minutes distribution and that there's any game where I'd find it acceptable for JV to play 18 minutes, you need a refresher on the term agree. I described what is largely a three man big rotation. That means, if you accept about 6 minutes of small ball to close the game, 90 minutes to spread between three guys. Ibaka at 34, Pat at 28 and JV at 28 sounds about right. With bad matchup nights, JV could get as low as 24 sometimes. But sub-20 - rare is the team in this league that would necessitate that.

[lewro]

I said that I agree more or less. JV has played 18-22 mins the last 7 games. How's that for a refresher? No need for the bad poetry either.😋

Talking about opposing teams scouting is one step beyond. Of course we need to see what we have in yak. He's already looking like a better defender than JV. Doesn't need the ball to have impact and great nose for the ball on O boards.
We've had a chance to see Delon, norm and bebe for a yr in the dleague and parts of a yr on the raps with siakam. Yak has shown promise in small samples but it's too small and random.
I don't think bebe is struggling from scouting reports? Have you seen the reports? I think he's just hit a wall. I tried to tell you earlier in the yr that he's barely out of the d league. At this point, we know what we have in bebe.
We have roughly 1000mins left. There's time for yak to play and all that data and experience may really pay dividends. We will still have ample/vast majority of time to see the main rotation guys, particularly in the playoffs.
Looks to me like yak has jumped bebe in the rotation for now, right? We will see.
Tbh I think youre a little worried that JV might lose his spot. Lots of factors. We should keep an open mind.