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  • Lupe wrote: View Post


    Yeah he could be better, but he's already one of the best.
    What are the time points for this data? Last year alone?

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    • Just to add on a bit to that image I posted: after timeout situations tend to favor defenses, that's why you can see from the chart that the teams' points scored per possession are much lower than they are throughout the course of the game. That is also why people think that Casey is bad at drawing up plays out of timeouts, because they don't lead to baskets as often as plays in the flow of the game (but that is true for every coach in the NBA).

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      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
        What are the time points for this data? Last year alone?
        I think it's from February last year. I'm trying to find a bigger data set right now.

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        • Axel wrote: View Post
          Last year is a great example, all year long the Raps trotted out a long expired Scola and Casey seemed to have dug his heels in on that issue despite the wealth of information. Then as soon as the playoffs started it's like, 'ok, bench this man'. He has shown the ability to make the right decision but he has also shown the ability to completely ignore problems. He is truly infuriating at times but his playoff decision making was noticeably better, so hopefully it carries over into this season.
          I'm no Casey apologist, but I if remember correctly, Scola's minutes were on a steady decline as the season wore on. That tells me that Casey understood the problem, but for whatever reason, thought that disrupting the rotation would have a worse effect? *shrug*

          And to be fair, it's not like Patterson was lighting the world on fire in his brief stints with the starting unit.

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          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
            I'm no Casey apologist, but I if remember correctly, Scola's minutes were on a steady decline as the season wore on. That tells me that Casey understood the problem, but for whatever reason, thought that disrupting the rotation would have a worse effect? *shrug*

            And to be fair, it's not like Patterson was lighting the world on fire in his brief stints with the starting unit.
            Scola's MPG by month (excluding Oct and April due to small number of games):

            Nov 24.0 mpg
            Dec 25.2 mpg
            Jan 20.8 mpg
            Feb 17.7 mpg
            Mar 20.7 mpg

            Season avg 21.5 mpg

            Playoffs 12.7 mpg

            Draw your own conclusions.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • While I was looking for more data came across an article on After Timeout Offense from BBallBreakdown. Talked a bit about Casey and the Raps



              Check out this ATO from Dwane Casey – notice anything strange?

              That’s right! Casey had only four players stationed in the frontcourt for a go-ahead possession.

              Most coaches will resort to this strategy to clear space in the backcourt when leading, simply to help get the ball in-bounds. Here Casey has shifted a spare player into the backcourt to give Demar Derozen more room to operate off his curl action. Importantly, this extends the range of help for the sole weak-side defender, eventually revealing a wide-open corner three for Corey Joseph. The lack of a fifth defender makes any subsequent help-rotate-recover response near impossible. Essentially a hammer play without the flare screen. Very innovative stuff.
              https://bballbreakdown.com/2015/12/3...fter-timeouts/

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              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                I'm no Casey apologist, but I if remember correctly, Scola's minutes were on a steady decline as the season wore on. That tells me that Casey understood the problem, but for whatever reason, thought that disrupting the rotation would have a worse effect? *shrug*

                And to be fair, it's not like Patterson was lighting the world on fire in his brief stints with the starting unit.
                Depends how you measure "lighting the world on fire." Individually, with his shooting? No.

                But look at this (4-man units used because of the rotating door at SF) from last season:

                4-man unit: Lowry-DeRozan-Scola-JV: 103.2 ORTG, 108.1 DRTG, -4.9 RTG
                4-man unit: Lowry-DeRozan-Patterson-JV: 127.4 ORTG, 107.9 DRTG, +19.5 RTG

                A 127 ORTG is pretty much by definition lighting the world on fire. That's no small sample size either - that 4-some had 250+ minutes played together.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • I just don't really see how you can say the guy isn't a good tactician when he has almost 40 years of coaching experience at the collegiate and professional level. Was integral to an NBA Championship winning staff in Dallas, and since he actually got a good roster in Toronto has consistently had the team near the top of the conference including a playoff run last year to the ECF despite the top two stars being complete no-shows offensively.

                  Like there's a lot more to that than just "pound the rock" and hair-dryers.

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                    • Lupe wrote: View Post
                      I just don't really see how you can say the guy isn't a good tactician when he has almost 40 years of coaching experience at the collegiate and professional level. Was integral to an NBA Championship winning staff in Dallas, and since he actually got a good roster in Toronto has consistently had the team near the top of the conference including a playoff run last year to the ECF despite the top two stars being complete no-shows offensively.

                      Like there's a lot more to that than just "pound the rock" and hair-dryers.
                      Well a coach can be in the league for a very long time without having to be a great tactician, so longevity isn't necessarily reflective of that coaching component.

                      The Championship staff was also led by one of the best coaches in the league and had a veteran roster.

                      So while both are interesting points, neither specifically speak to tactical acumen.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                      Comment


                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Depends how you measure "lighting the world on fire." Individually, with his shooting? No.

                        But look at this (4-man units used because of the rotating door at SF) from last season:

                        4-man unit: Lowry-DeRozan-Scola-JV: 103.2 ORTG, 108.1 DRTG, -4.9 RTG
                        4-man unit: Lowry-DeRozan-Patterson-JV: 127.4 ORTG, 107.9 DRTG, +19.5 RTG

                        A 127 ORTG is pretty much by definition lighting the world on fire. That's no small sample size either - that 4-some had 250+ minutes played together.
                        I'm also in favor of starting Patterson, but you also have to wonder how much that oRTG is inflated by who that lineup was matched up against. It might've dropped off if it started against the other teams' best units.

                        Like it's hard for me to see the logic in not starting 2Pat, but one thing I have considered is that we were not the only team that didn't start its best lineup.

                        For example the Cavaliers did in fact start their best lineup (talking over 100 mins played here btw). But Golden State didn't (the death lineup), the Spurs didn't (Tony-Manu-Kawhi-Aldridge-Duncan), the Clippers also didn't (they had 4 lineups that were better than their starters), neither did the Hawks (although their best lineup doesn't include Millsap so that's likely why).

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                        • Axel wrote: View Post
                          Well a coach can be in the league for a very long time without having to be a great tactician, so longevity isn't necessarily reflective of that coaching component.

                          The Championship staff was also led by one of the best coaches in the league and had a veteran roster.

                          So while both are interesting points, neither specifically speak to tactical acumen.
                          Well the problem is it's difficult to actually measure tactical acumen in any sort of quantifiable way. All we can really do is make judgment causes that are heavily biased by what or who we watch with the most regularity and our own personal opinions on what is most important. That's why I thought the topic I brought up earlier was relevant, but since you asked me not to I won't continue to delve further into it.

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                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            I'm also in favor of starting Patterson, but you also have to wonder how much that oRTG is inflated by who that lineup was matched up against. It might've dropped off if it started against the other teams' best units.

                            Like it's hard for me to see the logic in not starting 2Pat, but one thing I have considered is that we were not the only team that didn't start its best lineup.

                            For example the Cavaliers did in fact start their best lineup (talking over 100 mins played here btw). But Golden State didn't (the death lineup), the Spurs didn't (Tony-Manu-Kawhi-Aldridge-Duncan), the Clippers also didn't (they had 4 lineups that were better than their starters), neither did the Hawks (although their best lineup doesn't include Millsap so that's likely why).
                            There is a bit of a difference between not starting your best line up and starting a line up that is a negative. Scola's unit was losing ground fairly consistently, so it's not even really defendable as an option.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • Axel wrote: View Post
                              Scola's MPG by month (excluding Oct and April due to small number of games):

                              Nov 24.0 mpg
                              Dec 25.2 mpg
                              Jan 20.8 mpg
                              Feb 17.7 mpg
                              Mar 20.7 mpg

                              Season avg 21.5 mpg

                              Playoffs 12.7 mpg

                              Draw your own conclusions.
                              First 2 months of the season, Scola was actually hitting open shots

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                              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                First 2 months of the season, Scola was actually hitting open shots
                                And was nonetheless a tremendous drag on the team.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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