Everything (2016-2017) Regular Season Game Threads

[Axel]

Vonleh got pretty nice game, active on boards, but still that trade for Batum turned out awful for Portalnd, only one more year and Vonleh will probably be out of the league.

Vonleh is still just 21 years old and was one of the most raw prospects in that 2014 draft class. Absolutely no way he is out of the league in a year and way too early to write the guy off. He's stuck in a crowded front court but he's a natural rebounder with great size/athleticism for modern big men.

[JamesNaismith]

Vonleh is still just 21 years old and was one of the most raw prospects in that 2014 draft class. Absolutely no way he is out of the league in a year and way too early to write the guy off. He's stuck in a crowded front court but he's a natural rebounder with great size/athleticism for modern big men.

Agreed and I think in his future he will become a small ball C like Tristan. He has the strength and length to become one. Just needs to keep extending his shot further out. I know if he came cheap I'd certainly like to see us pick him up.

Also if Ross hurt his wrist then it's pretty funny n somewhat karma for stunting on POR like that lol but works out well in that it should give Norm some more burn. Not that I want to see Ross out, prefer it be Carroll but like to see Norm work his way into some more consistent pt.

[Fully]

Vonleh is too young to completely write off but he's been a pretty big bust so far as the #9 pick. He's having an even worse season than last year - when he wasn't very good either, and one of only like 25 guys in the league with a negative win shares per/48 who plays more than 10 minutes. Still somewhat intriguing but flatly not very good so far in his career.

[Bendit]

That was a pretty hard game to watch.. those games after Xmas always hurt the eyeballs. Hope Ross is fine, but if he hurt his wrist on that dunk that's just beyond stupid.

8-2 in their last 10. This team is crazy good.

I agree re the Ross 360. Mitigating circumstance however is that he was playing in his hometown and probably many family attending. But still.........

[JamesNaismith]

Vonleh is too young to completely write off but he's been a pretty big bust so far as the #9 pick. He's having an even worse season than last year - when he wasn't very good either, and one of only like 25 guys in the league with a negative win shares per/48 who plays more than 10 minutes. Still somewhat intriguing but flatly not very good so far in his career.

He doesn't get consistent minutes and I think in today's NBA he doesn't play at the right position anymore...he's now C that has been a PF because he played that position growing up in the traditional way which was closer to the basket to rebound n hit mid range. The new era PF is far more becoming a large SF. The speed of the game is changing everything, JV is becoming marginalized as well as a big man. The speed necessary to handle the perimeter at every position is changing everything.

[Axel]

Vonleh is too young to completely write off but he's been a pretty big bust so far as the #9 pick. He's having an even worse season than last year - when he wasn't very good either, and one of only like 25 guys in the league with a negative win shares per/48 who plays more than 10 minutes. Still somewhat intriguing but flatly not very good so far in his career.

He doesn't player that much and is just as likely to get DNP-CD as he is to play 10+ mins in a game.

He only takes 3 shots per game, almost one of which is from deep (hits 31.6% from deep). He's not given much of a role on a guard dominated offence and very inconsistent opportunities. Not sure what is really expected from a raw big who turned 21 in August.

[Fully]

He doesn't get consistent minutes and I think in today's NBA he doesn't play at the right position anymore...he's now C that has been a PF because he played that position growing up in the traditional way which was closer to the basket to rebound n hit mid range. The new era PF is far more becoming a large SF. The speed of the game is changing everything, JV is becoming marginalized as well as a big man. The speed necessary to handle the perimeter at every position is changing everything.

I think the point about consistent minutes (or lack thereof) eventually becomes a function of the player themselves. It's not as if he's buried behind some stud big men that keep him off the court; He plays in one of the worst front court rotations in basketball, for a struggling team, with a bunch of also-rans and disappointments. And let's remember that the Blazers traded one of their better players two summers ago to get him, so they'd seemingly be invested in him.

At some point if you can't beat out the Ed Davis's and Meyers Leonards of the world for minutes, then maybe you're just not that good. It's easy to say that he struggles because he doesn't get consistent minutes, but there has to be a threshold when we realize that he might not be getting consistent minutes because he struggles so much.

And you're right about NBA positions evolving quite quickly and in general, getting smaller. I'm just not convinced that shifting Vonleh from PF to centre makes him a productive player all of a sudden. His struggles go beyond the defensive side of the floor - he's an arguably even worse offensive player.

[Fully]

He doesn't player that much and is just as likely to get DNP-CD as he is to play 10+ mins in a game.

He only takes 3 shots per game, almost one of which is from deep (hits 31.6% from deep). He's not given much of a role on a guard dominated offence and very inconsistent opportunities. Not sure what is really expected from a raw big who turned 21 in August.

He has 15 games with over ten minutes played and 6 DNP-CD's... so he's actually about 3 times as likely to crack that minutes threshold than not play at all.

[Axel]

He has 15 games with over ten minutes played and 6 DNP-CD's... so he's actually about 3 times as likely to crack that minutes threshold than not play at all.

Lol I didn't realize I needed the exact stats there.

Either way, he is a minor rotation player this year for Portland that is matchup dependent on a crowded front court. Too early to pass much judgement on the guy.

[slaw]

I think the point about consistent minutes (or lack thereof) eventually becomes a function of the player themselves. It's not as if he's buried behind some stud big men that keep him off the court; He plays in one of the worst front court rotations in basketball, for a struggling team, with a bunch of also-rans and disappointments. And let's remember that the Blazers traded one of their better players two summers ago to get him, so they'd seemingly be invested in him.

At some point if you can't beat out the Ed Davis's and Meyers Leonards of the world for minutes, then maybe you're just not that good. It's easy to say that he struggles because he doesn't get consistent minutes, but there has to be a threshold when we realize that he might not be getting consistent minutes because he struggles so much.

And you're right about NBA positions evolving quite quickly and in general, getting smaller. I'm just not convinced that shifting Vonleh from PF to centre makes him a productive player all of a sudden. His struggles go beyond the defensive side of the floor - he's an arguably even worse offensive player.

The Blazers were my team before Toronto got a team, so I have a bit of soft spot for them still and watch a bunch of their games. Vonleh had a run last year where he saw pretty consistent minutes from December through March but he couldn't stay on the floor late in the year and his minutes went down accordingly until he was out of the rotation in the playoffs. He started out okay this year but then played himself back onto the bench. He's actually been pretty decent during this losing streak but, even then, he doesn't really have any impact. He's just a guy.

The main problem is that he just isn't very productive when he's out there. He doesn't do anything. Yeah, he'll grab rebounds but it's not like he's a machine with that and otherwise he's pretty useless. Maybe in another system surrounded by different players but judging from his two years in Portland (I never watched him CHA) he's just your run of the mill backup PF who can rebound a little and is athletic. Problem for him is that those guys are a dime a dozen...

[Fully]

Lol I didn't realize I needed the exact stats there.

Either way, he is a minor rotation player this year for Portland that is matchup dependent on a crowded front court. Too early to pass much judgement on the guy.

Fair enough. And like I said above, I think there's a reason that he doesn't get that much run and it's because he's not very good. It doesn't really make sense for Portland to trade away Batum for Vonleh and then bury him behind Ed Davis on a bad team, just for something to do.

Colour me surprised if he ever puts it together and becomes a quality NBA player. Just seems like one of those guys who wows people during the draft process with his measurables and how he looks playing 1-on-0 in an empty gym, but put him in the middle of an actual game and he doesn't have the mental strength in order to be a pro. But maybe I'll be wrong. At this point though, there really is no debating that he's a poor player. It's a fact.

[Axel]

Fair enough. And like I said above, I think there's a reason that he doesn't get that much run and it's because he's not very good. It doesn't really make sense for Portland to trade away Batum for Vonleh and then bury him behind Ed Davis on a bad team, just for something to do.

Colour me surprised if he ever puts it together and becomes a quality NBA player. Just seems like one of those guys who wows people during the draft process with his measurables and how he looks playing 1-on-0 in an empty gym, but put him in the middle of an actual game and he doesn't have the mental strength in order to be a pro. But maybe I'll be wrong. At this point though, there really is no debating that he's a poor player. It's a fact.

I think he still develops into a pretty good player - his size and skills are similar to that of Patterson - he simply lacks the experience and opportunities.

Portland currently sits 5th in the West - so it's not like he's wasting away on a lotto team and not cracking the rotation. They aren't the most talented team so they have a pretty slim margin for error to be successful - Terry Stotts is playing for wins and right now, depending on the matchup, Ed Davis, Myers Leonard or Mo Harkless give them better options at the 4 and 5. I don't see that as some great indictment on Vonleh. He's the 34th youngest player to play in the league this year - 19th youngest among players who played 10 mpg.

I was classify him as a developing player and I think that is different than a poor player.

[3inthekeon]

Yeah, out of the league in a year is hyperbolic, but this is his 3rd year and he's still a sinkhole on offence. Some high picks never really improve or build a skill enough to claim a regular rotation spot, (Thomas Robinson, Derrick Williams, Anthony Bennett recent examples).
Those guys still keep getting chances, but the chances of Vonleh becoming much more than any of them is getting slim.

[Fully]

I think he still develops into a pretty good player - his size and skills are similar to that of Patterson - he simply lacks the experience and opportunities.

Portland currently sits 5th in the West - so it's not like he's wasting away on a lotto team and not cracking the rotation. They aren't the most talented team so they have a pretty slim margin for error to be successful - Terry Stotts is playing for wins and right now, depending on the matchup, Ed Davis, Myers Leonard or Mo Harkless give them better options at the 4 and 5. I don't see that as some great indictment on Vonleh. He's the 34th youngest player to play in the league this year - 19th youngest among players who played 10 mpg.

I was classify him as a developing player and I think that is different than a poor player.

He's getting worse though?

[Chr1s1anL]

Didn't watch the game. How did Bebe play?

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