Everything (2016-2017) Regular Season Game Threads

[LJ2]

I am not saying we should fold. I just think that this season isn't gonna be as good as last. Every year we seemingly improved on something. This year it feels like we hit our peak and are regressing.

You could be right about hitting our peak, and the defence is regressing, but like I said, what can you expect when you are forced to play rookies? As far as results we could very well be as good as last season and make if to the ECF. No need to think we will do any worse. We've improved our offence, and if Clevland let's up to rest LeBron or suffers an injury then we could end up with the first seed. How's that for a yearly improvement?

[The Great One]

I agree with you that losing Biz has negatively affected our defense. Even JJ maybe a tiny bit. But Scola? Cmon cuz.

He's a veteran guy that has seen it all. Good locker room guy, Good post up game and he can also stretch the floor.

Right now with Siakam, we're pretty much playing 4 on 5 on offense because opposing teams aren't really guarding him.

[rocwell]

Well deserved, coach! ���� #WeTheNorth

More: https://t.co/wGndoWlMS6 pic.twitter.com/cW3q98GSka

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) January 4, 2017

[LJ2]

Masai has to make a big move no matter what the cost. If the Orlando GM had been as much of a chickenshit as Masai, he wouldn't have made the Ibaka trade and the Magic wouldn't be the elite team they are now.

What are your thoughts on the Raptors window for a championship? If the big trade isn't there is the best course of action to ride the Lowry/DeRozan era out as a perennial second or third seed and trust that some of our young players can be developed into a good group which will create a championship window of their own?

Myself, I'm not advocating that something HAS to be done right now, but feel we've reached our potential with the current group. I don't see swapping 2Pat into the starting line up or adjusting offensive/defensive schemes as a path to getting to the finals. I also enjoy not being a bottom feeder so...

[3inthekeon]

What are your thoughts on the Raptors window for a championship? If the big trade isn't there is the best course of action to ride the Lowry/DeRozan era out as a perennial second or third seed and trust that some of our young players can be developed into a good group which will create a championship window of their own?

Myself, I'm not advocating that something HAS to be done right now, but feel we've reached our potential with the current group. I don't see swapping 2Pat into the starting line up or adjusting offensive/defensive schemes as a path to getting to the finals. I also enjoy not being a bottom feeder so...

My thoughts? I'm not going to get all worked up like some around here. I think that Masai is more than competent to take care of trade business without me making 50 posts about what he should or shouldn't do.

[KeonClark]

With Sullinger out we have to play a rookie(s) at some point until he gets back. Start of the game could perhaps do the least damage since we are a good second half/4th quarter team. Frankly, I don't know what good starting Patterson does against the teams we've lost to. It's the two losses to SAC and the one to PHX that throw me off a bit, but DMC is that good and PHX was on the second half of a back to back.

I don't see how results change with 2Pat starting. Actually I could see us being worse off if we are giving up leads later in the game by playing a rookie. There wouldn't be as much time to dig ourselves out of that hole.

Quite frankly if we want to go deep into the playoffs we need Pascal specifically to get up to speed as soon as possible. Who else on our roster is better suited to guard George, LeBron type players? I fine with them experimenting for now.

This rigamarole again? Somebody says it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes, then DanH rolls up his sleeves and goes off with numbers and facts, wash, rinse, repeat.

[DanH]

With Sullinger out we have to play a rookie(s) at some point until he gets back. Start of the game could perhaps do the least damage since we are a good second half/4th quarter team. Frankly, I don't know what good starting Patterson does against the teams we've lost to. It's the two losses to SAC and the one to PHX that throw me off a bit, but DMC is that good and PHX was on the second half of a back to back.

I don't see how results change with 2Pat starting. Actually I could see us being worse off if we are giving up leads later in the game by playing a rookie. There wouldn't be as much time to dig ourselves out of that hole.

Quite frankly if we want to go deep into the playoffs we need Pascal specifically to get up to speed as soon as possible. Who else on our roster is better suited to guard George, LeBron type players? I fine with them experimenting for now.

We're a good second half/4th quarter team because we play Patterson for almost the entire second half. It's not like we were a good 4th quarter team, then decided to not start Patterson. If we started Patterson, we'd be a good 1st Q team. We don't, so we aren't.

It's not as simple as binary would they win or lose. That's the exact same argument put in place for Scola starting all last year. The reality is when the playoffs hit the team will be forced to not start Siakam (ideally Sully will be back but that's a conversation and rotation choice for when/if Sully is actually back). And they will, just like last year, start Patterson and the bench will be wrecked because they will rarely if ever have played a bench unit without him (his injury now may well be a blessing in disguise in that regard). The regular season is basically a warm up for the playoffs - you should use it to find your ideal rotation, to figure out what works and what doesn't, to try various combinations of players against various competition and play styles. Not just stick to a formula because it is working. You want tools in your toolbox, and barring Patterson's recent injury, the team was once again on the path to literally never trying any bench units without Patterson in them.

As for who is better suited to guard LeBron? Patterson is. He's the best LeBron defender on the team. Powell did pretty well against George last year. In any case, how is playing Pascal at PF in the starting lineup (when the starters in a LBJ playoff series will have to deal with both Love and LBJ) helping in this regard? Shouldn't we be starting Pat and Pascal at the 3 and 4 and sitting Carroll if that's the thought process? It's a ridiculous suggestion, but if we were actually starting Pat and the Pat+starters lineup was putting up the numbers it is now, it would be a ridiculous suggestion to change the starting lineup, right?

Reality is, in the playoffs, if one of Sully or Pat are hurt, the other will start, so the spot Siakam is going to need to be able to slot into is not starting PF, but bench PF, and he's not getting much run with that bench unit to build up familiarity.

Actually I could see us being worse off if we are giving up leads later in the game by playing a rookie. There wouldn't be as much time to dig ourselves out of that hole.

Unless you are proposing playing Patterson less or Siakam more, I don't see how the math changes here. Frankly, I'd expect Pat to be able to handle slightly more minutes as a starter, so if anything the result would be the opposite - more Pat = bigger leads, less hole digging. Nevermind that we don't actually know that BeBe+Siakam-fronted bench units would actually even dig holes. On the year, Siakam and JV are a -3.4 net rating together. Nogueira and Siakam are a +26 (~60 MP, small sample, because as noted above they aren't getting much time together). JV and Pat are a +10.7. Nogueira and Pat are +21.7. Seems like that bench unit (mostly powered by the Lowry version) just does great no matter who else is out there, because Lowry against opposing bench players is unfair.

Here's the best part - trying it would not prevent you from reverting back to this later if it didn't work! Give it 20 games in the middle of the season to see if you can improve on what you have. If it all backfires, go back to what was working. Does Patterson strike you as the sort of guy who will struggle to re-integrate with a lineup? The upside of just freaking trying it is so high, with basically no downside (maybe a couple more losses in the middle of the season).

Wouldn't it be nice if you could make the argument in this discussion "Actually I DID see us being worse off if we are giving up leads later in the game by playing a rookie. There WASN'T as much time to dig ourselves out of that hole"? Instead we are stuck with what little evidence we have - all of which points to just starting our real starting PF already.

[McRealistic]

Well deserved, coach! ���� #WeTheNorth

More: https://t.co/wGndoWlMS6 pic.twitter.com/cW3q98GSka

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) January 4, 2017

Nice Job Coach ...

[Chr1s1anL]

I am not saying we should fold. I just think that this season isn't gonna be as good as last. Every year we seemingly improved on something. This year it feels like we hit our peak and are regressing.

We have the best offence in the league. That would count as improvement right?

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[LJ2]

My thoughts? I'm not going to get all worked up like some around here. I think that Masai is more than competent to take care of trade business without me making 50 posts about what he should or shouldn't do.

I'm not worked up about it, but would think it's a great subject to discuss on a Raptors forum.

[KeonClark]

We have the best offence in the league. That would count as improvement right?

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Without looking up the stats, Id be pretty confident saying this recent stretch has dropped us clearly below Golden State

[LJ2]

This rigamarole again? Somebody says it doesn't matter who starts, it's who finishes, then DanH rolls up his sleeves and goes off with numbers and facts, wash, rinse, repeat.

In my defence I don't necessarily think DanH is wrong based on the information he has access to, but don't necessarily think he has access to all of the same information which the coaching staff has access to.

After being not just wrong, but completely, and without a doubt wrong about some of the things in regards to tanking/not tanking, player ceilings, trades, coaches, etc. I try not to make statements like they are facts.

If just from last season to this one Casey can go from being most hated to applauded and JV can go from golden boy to trade bait then anything is possible.

[3inthekeon]

I'm not worked up about it, but would think it's a great subject to discuss on a Raptors forum.

And that's OK too.

[S.R.]

It really feels like 2014-2015 all over again. Our defence is absolutely brutal. They brought in Carroll to be their main perimeter stopper but he's been absolutely brutal. Losing Biz in the offseason was HUGE specially on the defensive side of the ball. He was a huge part of their success last year. He gave them that toughness, physicality, rim protection and leadership that they were missing the previous years. They never really replaced him. Noguiera is absolute garbage.

I think they also miss James Johnson and call me crazy Luis Scola. We lost a lot of good veteran players that fits and we replaced them with young players. Rookies.

Nice Job Coach ...

Heh, something doesn't add up.

In spite of a general sense of panic on account of how JV and Carroll are playing, this team is ahead of where they were at this point last year. The defense has taken a dip but is on the mend recently, the offense is a good step ahead, and the point diff is ahead. W/L to January 4th last year was 21-15 (.583) and this year is 23-11 (.676).

[rocwell]

We have the best offence in the league. That would count as improvement right?

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We are actually Tied-3rd now lol ( 1. Warriors 2. Rockets 3. Cavs/Toronto )