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A Little Perspective in This Painful Time

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  • #46
    Majesiu wrote: View Post
    Sure but his hand doesn't have many Aces & Kings, more like single 2s & 3s with our picks being late 20s. Also we are sure seem to be young, but if you take into account who really plays these minutes on court we are not. Our only "uber" young player is Bruno, none of them was one and done, and Delon is actually older than JV. These players aren't worth more than late 1st rounder (Poeltl, Siakam, Delon, FVV and Bruno even less). Only Powell value is on the rise. I'm not saying Masai did something wrong, he has a history of making more with less, but I don't think we have what needed to make these 4 more steps (and exactly what would they be? bringing sub-par defenders to give us more shooting, because that's what CLE did, and I doubt that would be enough to compete with LeBrons).
    I see more 10s, jacks, and queens - guys that weren't quite ready this year, but will be next.

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    • #47
      SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
      Isn't there some contradiction here?
      overall, Casey's coaching is the problem.

      Pop coaching on the series against Cleveland ONLY, that's what l mean.

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      • #48
        LateBoomer wrote: View Post
        overall, Casey's coaching is the problem.

        Pop coaching on the series against Cleveland ONLY, that's what l mean.
        So Casey's coaching want really the problem in this series, just otherwise?

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        • #49
          SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
          So Casey's coaching want really the problem in this series, just otherwise?
          Coaching was his problem in that he was unable to prepare his team for the postseason during the regular season.
          He is just not good enough.

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          • #50
            SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
            A big thing to remember is that we just haven't done all the little tinkering moves and excessive spending that teams generally do to go from good to great. Look at Cleveland - they pulled a great trade to land a languishing veteran stretch 4 in Frye, they got Richard Jefferson to stay on, traded for Korver, got Deron Williams for nothing, and then signed and cut a bunch of others trying to find the right mix/insurance for a long playoff run.

            We, on the other hand, did take one step towards that level with PJ and Ibaka. But that's like step 2 in a 5 or 6 step process.

            Masai played one of his cards but has stayed uber-young in his 10-15 spots on the roster. I agree with that, as it gives him more options and more room for internal development. But nor is it going all-in as the Cavs have rightfully done.

            One step at a time.
            This is so far removed from reality I'm not sure what to tell you.

            Maybe this article will more accurately break down the talent/salary conundrum we find ourselves in:

            http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...s-nba-playoffs
            It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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            • #51
              Scraptor wrote: View Post
              This is so far removed from reality I'm not sure what to tell you.

              Maybe this article will more accurately break down the talent/salary conundrum we find ourselves in:

              http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...s-nba-playoffs
              I'm not quite sure what the outrageous ideas are that you think I have. Care to elucidate in your own words?

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              • #52
                I just feel the raptors/cavaliers series this year was like watching puppies in a blender with Lebron at the switch. So sad.

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                • #53
                  There are a lot of options to consider and somewhere ownership is really going to dictate the direction based on the scenarios presented. In business they have the three legged stool. Ownership,employees and customer. If the stool has too much consideration to one leg it is going to tip over. The leafs have not yet despite little team success. Realistically the NBA championship was determined by the talent on the cav s and warrior's roster and the ability to keep that talent healthy for the playoffs. You could not make that claim in hockey.


                  Sent from my 9015B using Tapatalk

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                  • #54
                    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                    I'm not quite sure what the outrageous ideas are that you think I have. Care to elucidate in your own words?
                    -We are approaching our fifth offseason with Masai. If we are at step 2 in a 6 step process we won't be done for another 8 years.
                    -The reality is that our cap situation places us at step 4 of 5, or 5 of 6. We simply won't have much flexibility, because much of our talent is on the verge of being locked up to big deals. Neither DeMar nor Kyle is going to be underpaid as they once were. JV and Carroll eat up a third of the cap. Ibaka needs to get paid too.
                    -We are not uber young in spots 10-15. No one is under 21 (Bruno and Jakob turn 22 this fall); there are no young high upside prospects like a Marquese Chriss who were one and done.
                    -Even the young prospects we do have won't see more than a role player impact in the current pecking order. Our marquee 5th overall pick has to fight for scraps despite repeatedly showing his effectiveness in a defined role.
                    -Cleveland can make tinkering moves because they have a championship level core. We don't have a championship-level core, and being on the verge of going into the luxury tax means tinkering moves won't really fix what ails us.

                    Basically it's outrageous to suggest we have a lot of room to grow and improve when we are really tight against the wall, with few options and a lot of hard choices to make. Which is what the Zach Lowe article is about.
                    It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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                    • #55
                      Scraptor wrote: View Post
                      -We are approaching our fifth offseason with Masai. If we are at step 2 in a 6 step process we won't be done for another 8 years.
                      -The reality is that our cap situation places us at step 4 of 5, or 5 of 6. We simply won't have much flexibility, because much of our talent is on the verge of being locked up to big deals. Neither DeMar nor Kyle is going to be underpaid as they once were. JV and Carroll eat up a third of the cap. Ibaka needs to get paid too.
                      -We are not uber young in spots 10-15. No one is under 21 (Bruno and Jakob turn 22 this fall); there are no young high upside prospects like a Marquese Chriss who were one and done.
                      -Even the young prospects we do have won't see more than a role player impact in the current pecking order. Our marquee 5th overall pick has to fight for scraps despite repeatedly showing his effectiveness in a defined role.
                      -Cleveland can make tinkering moves because they have a championship level core. We don't have a championship-level core, and being on the verge of going into the luxury tax means tinkering moves won't really fix what ails us.

                      Basically it's outrageous to suggest we have a lot of room to grow and improve when we are really tight against the wall, with few options and a lot of hard choices to make. Which is what the Zach Lowe article is about.
                      Hey Scraptor, thanks for replying.

                      1. My point about the trade deadline deal being step 2 out of 6 was about the steps leading from being a very good team to a great team, not team-building in general. You could argue that we've been very good for a while, but I was thinking we got there last season, as Masai had been in asset-collection mode despite winning quite a few games. The remaining steps are the levers available to managers of teams that commit to being great. Maybe we're on more like Step 4 of 6 this summer (Established ourselves in 15-16, strong offseason, trade deadline deal, Step 4)

                      2. These levers, that exist to NBA teams above the cap, constitute much of the rich-get-richer nature of the NBA. You have to be careful when it comes to the tax, but high-spending teams get a lot of leeway and mechanisms for improvement thanks to the soft cap. And it's these levers - MLE, ring-chaser veteran mins, late first round draft steals, and soon 2-way contracts - that Masai still has at his disposal. I'll give you that we're in a bit of a precarious position regarding the tax and our current set of free agents, but that's what you need good management for.

                      3. 21-22 years old IS uber young, it's what made us one of the younger rosters in the league. And save for Bruno, each of these guys have demonstrated that they will be pretty much good-to-go for next season. You might be pining for a superstar but these are all good prospects, good pieces of the puzzle, and together constitute one of the better 5-man youth-squads in the league.

                      4. All of these guys, JV included, seem to be developing pretty well to me. JV basically averaged a double-double this season.

                      5. Lowry, DeMar, JV, and Ibaka might be broken up. But that's also a damn good core, especially if you can get the right players around them. Add a couple knock-down shooters and it completely shifts how difficult they are to guard.

                      Finally, a quick list of our assets/levers that Masai can pull:
                      -We have full bird rights on all our free agents, costly to keep them all, but nothing to sneeze at.
                      -The number 5 leading scorer in the league
                      -Youth squad on cheap contracts - Powell, Poeltl, Delon, Bruno, Siakim
                      -Full MLE
                      -First round pick (this is where Masai and the staff have got to continue earning their paychecks), second round as well?
                      -Early Bird Rights on one of the better guards in Europe Nando de Colo (possible backup plan if Kyle walks, or just to add a pure shooter)
                      -only one albatross contract in Carroll, still tradeable
                      -Cory and JV
                      -2 2-way contracts, one of which could be used to bring former 2nd round pick DeAndre Daniels, healthy and playing decent ball in Europe, back into the fold
                      -A coaching upgrade, or at least a shift of "style", should be expected

                      Bottomline, Masai has stockpiled a lot of assets in preparation for this summer. This is not your younger-self's Raptor team with GG going all-in on big contracts to Alvin, JYD, and AD with very little internal development plan in place.
                      Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Fri May 12th, 2017, 01:15 PM.

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