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The Argument Against A Rebuild

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  • #16
    So to calm my pessimistic thoughts, could y'all please make a case of this so called 'continuity' with the current stock of talent we have?
    You don't tear down a team that is in the top 4 of the conference, has won more games than any other eastern conference team in the last 4 seasons, and is a top 5-6 team in the NBA. You just don't. No one does. Anyone who did would not have a job. You tear down teams that are stuck outside the playoffs or teams that are really, really old and set to decline significantly. The reason is simple: it's really damn hard to have success in the NBA. Even a great rebuild strategy accompanied by a solid implementation is hugely dependent on luck. That's why you only do it when you have no other choice.

    This team is not in the spot of its life cycle where a rebuild is required. It will be one day, but not yet.

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    • #17
      slaw wrote: View Post
      You don't tear down a team that is in the top 4 of the conference, has won more games than any other eastern conference team in the last 4 seasons, and is a top 5-6 team in the NBA. You just don't. No one does. Anyone who did would not have a job. You tear down teams that are stuck outside the playoffs or teams that are really, really old and set to decline significantly. The reason is simple: it's really damn hard to have success in the NBA. Even a great rebuild strategy accompanied by a solid implementation is hugely dependent on luck. That's why you only do it when you have no other choice.

      This team is not in the spot of its life cycle where a rebuild is required. It will be one day, but not yet.
      Yep! Unless Lowry walks, in which case they jump way closer to that "rebuild required" threshold. Such is the reality of losing a star.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • #18
        JimiCliff wrote:
        Agreed. Keep the core together (if possible). Keep winning and keep making the playoffs. Keep the cupboard stocked with decent young talent (they seem to be good at this). And then: WIGGINS 2021 (or whenever he's unrestricted).
        Most likely 2023.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #19
          slaw wrote: View Post
          You don't tear down a team that is in the top 4 of the conference, has won more games than any other eastern conference team in the last 4 seasons, and is a top 5-6 team in the NBA. You just don't. No one does. Anyone who did would not have a job. You tear down teams that are stuck outside the playoffs or teams that are really, really old and set to decline significantly. The reason is simple: it's really damn hard to have success in the NBA. Even a great rebuild strategy accompanied by a solid implementation is hugely dependent on luck. That's why you only do it when you have no other choice.

          This team is not in the spot of its life cycle where a rebuild is required. It will be one day, but not yet.
          Agreed. Keep the core together (if possible). Keep winning and keep making the playoffs. Keep the cupboard stocked with decent young talent (they seem to be good at this). And then: WIGGINS 2021 (or whenever he's unrestricted).
          "Stop eating your sushi."
          "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
          "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
          - Jack Armstrong

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          • #20
            I think everyone understands we're a top 5ish team in the regular season, but can we justify going into the luxury tax for players that have habitually under performed when it matters most? As much blame as we can put on Casey for our playoff faltering, it's the players that need to and had to step-up, and they didn't.

            Sure we have a young team, but as stated they are riding the pine; young assets cannot be grown there. By throwing them in the fire and seeing what they are made of is. We can't say we have a 'young' bench either; CJo, PP and TRoss we're the major contributors off the bench with Norman only coming in half way through the season and half way through the playoffs. I like to see Delon, Jakob, Pascal and Bruno grow and see what they got, but if we retain our core how is that possible?

            We say we need 3 point shooters, with what money? We have an MLE sure, what kind of 3 point marksman can we get for Jared Sullinger money? Never mind the fact Norman is off the books next year. Also Masai is not trading Demarre for a valuable asset, theres only so many times you can fool the league with your savvy trades. JV is tradeable, but then Ibaka would slide to the 5 where he struggled in the playoffs.

            If we buy in, that's 3-5 years of this team. There's no way around the fact there won't be major growth, the starting 5 are all in their primes (except JV maybe). If we buy in, this is what we got; the Clippers of the East. A facade of a contender.

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            • #21
              Deems wrote: View Post
              I think everyone understands we're a top 5ish team in the regular season, but can we justify going into the luxury tax for players that have habitually under performed when it matters most? As much blame as we can put on Casey for our playoff faltering, it's the players that need to and had to step-up, and they didn't.

              Sure we have a young team, but as stated they are riding the pine; young assets cannot be grown there. By throwing them in the fire and seeing what they are made of is. We can't say we have a 'young' bench either; CJo, PP and TRoss we're the major contributors off the bench with Norman only coming in half way through the season and half way through the playoffs. I like to see Delon, Jakob, Pascal and Bruno grow and see what they got, but if we retain our core how is that possible?

              We say we need 3 point shooters, with what money? We have an MLE sure, what kind of 3 point marksman can we get for Jared Sullinger money? Never mind the fact Norman is off the books next year. Also Masai is not trading Demarre for a valuable asset, theres only so many times you can fool the league with your savvy trades. JV is tradeable, but then Ibaka would slide to the 5 where he struggled in the playoffs.

              If we buy in, that's 3-5 years of this team. There's no way around the fact there won't be major growth, the starting 5 are all in their primes (except JV maybe). If we buy in, this is what we got; the Clippers of the East. A facade of a contender.
              I'm not sure I buy that every player on the team is just naturally unable to play in the playoffs. Seems like a stretch compared to a pretty simple explanation like "the system that everyone has hated for years is actually crap, shock of all shocks."
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • #22
                DanH wrote: View Post
                I'm not sure I buy that every player on the team is just naturally unable to play in the playoffs. Seems like a stretch compared to a pretty simple explanation like "the system that everyone has hated for years is actually crap, shock of all shocks."
                The major cogs haven't. I don't think you can say with a straight face DeMar and Kyle have had one good series in these 4 years.

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                • #23
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  I'm not sure I buy that every player on the team is just naturally unable to play in the playoffs. Seems like a stretch compared to a pretty simple explanation like "the system that everyone has hated for years is actually crap, shock of all shocks."
                  It's been pretty obvious (to me, anyways) since he was a rookie that Demar just doesn't have that 'it' factor that true stars have, of being able to find a new level to their game in clutch moments. Over the past couple of years, he's surprised me with his continued growth, and so I've softened on my original stance, but I still believe that his poor playoff showings were mostly his own fault, and had little to do with the system.

                  As for Lowry, he's been bricking clutch free throws, regular season and playoffs, since he got here. He certainly doesn't make love to pressure.
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Deems wrote: View Post
                    The major cogs haven't. I don't think you can say with a straight face DeMar and Kyle have had one good series in these 4 years.
                    Of course not. But they've been in this system all 4 years, so I don't see how that contradicts my point.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • #25
                      If we buy in, that's 3-5 years of this team. There's no way around the fact there won't be major growth, the starting 5 are all in their primes (except JV maybe). If we buy in, this is what we got; the Clippers of the East. A facade of a contender
                      Maybe, but the alternative is not: a) tear down, b) rebuild, c) turn into true, elite contending team, d) multiple championships.

                      It's more like: a) tear down, b) rebuild c) turn into [____], d) ???????????.

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                      • #26
                        JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                        It's been pretty obvious (to me, anyways) since he was a rookie that Demar just doesn't have that 'it' factor that true stars have, of being able to find a new level to their game in clutch moments. Over the past couple of years, he's surprised me with his continued growth, and so I've softened on my original stance, but I still believe that his poor playoff showings were mostly his own fault, and had little to do with the system.

                        As for Lowry, he's been bricking clutch free throws, regular season and playoffs, since he got here. He certainly doesn't make love to pressure.
                        It's also kinda hard to understand how your team is better when your star(derozan) is off the floor rather than on.

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                        • #27
                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          Maybe, but the alternative is not: a) tear down, b) rebuild, c) turn into true, elite contending team, d) multiple championships.

                          It's more like: a) tear down, b) rebuild c) turn into [____], d) ???????????.
                          turn into a POSSIBLE true contender. no one said its gunna be easy or linear.

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                          • #28
                            JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                            It's been pretty obvious (to me, anyways) since he was a rookie that Demar just doesn't have that 'it' factor that true stars have, of being able to find a new level to their game in clutch moments.
                            I should add: his dunk at the end of game 6 against the Bucks was the very first time I saw that 'it' factor from him.
                            "Stop eating your sushi."
                            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                            - Jack Armstrong

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              DanH wrote: View Post
                              Of course not. But they've been in this system all 4 years, so I don't see how that contradicts my point.
                              Well to add to my point, as a leader of a team wouldn't you take the responsibility in your hands to at least put your 2 cents in into changing the system? I'm not saying overthrow the coach but if something has not been working for 4 years and you're the captain of the ship you should take the initiative to start the conversation.

                              You don't think DeMar and Kyle like the ball in their hands as much as possible? Also why does it take PJ Tucker, a guy who comes in halfway through the season to call out the lack of accountability for DeMar's play? I think it goes beyond a system at this point.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Deems wrote: View Post
                                Well to add to my point, as a leader of a team wouldn't you take the responsibility in your hands to at least put your 2 cents in into changing the system? I'm not saying overthrow the coach but if something has not been working for 4 years and you're the captain of the ship you should take the initiative to start the conversation.

                                You don't think DeMar and Kyle like the ball in their hands as much as possible? Also why does it take PJ Tucker, a guy who comes in halfway through the season to call out the lack of accountability for DeMar's play? I think it goes beyond a system at this point.
                                Letting the inmates run the asylum is not something you pin on the inmates.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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