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Is it time for MLSE to flex their muscle?

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  • #16
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    Does moving JV, Cojo, Carroll, letting Patterson walk and maybe Bruno or Nog get us under the cap?
    Just being under the cap isn't good enough though. To sign Millsap we would need enough cap space to be able to sign him without going over the cap. So, say he is willing to come here for $28M per year, then we would need at least that amount of cap space to sign him. I'm not sure if your scenario gets us under the cap or not, but I am pretty sure it will not get us far enough under the cap to sign Millsap, or any other top tier free agent that isn't already a Raptor.

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    • #17
      Is it time for MLSE to flex their muscle?

      Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
      The thing is if you trade those guys a player has to come back in the trade generally. But let's assume you move all those guys for future picks.

      Using rough numbers, that would bring the payroll from about 80 mill to about 40 mill. If you give give 30 mill to Lowry, 20 mill to Ibaka, and 10 mill to Tucker we're capped out basically. I didn't check exact salaries but to your question even if we dump all those guys for nothing we don't have much space if we want to keep Lowry/Ibaka/Tucker
      Quick question.....

      Why do we need to sign our guys first? What if we just signed (whoever we target) first and then signed our guys to go over the cap?

      Having asked those questions, I have no idea with regards to the cap holds of our players.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Last edited by special1; Fri May 19th, 2017, 08:33 PM.

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      • #18
        When a GM makes any trade that benefits their team, they're a "decent" GM. When they've pulled off a deal that will be forever considered as a "I can't believe the other guys were stupid enough to..." type of trade, they are BRILLIANT. If we're to treat Masai as a genius for trading Bargnani for what we got, and Gay for what we got, then Ainge is in the same territory with his deals. And the results show it. Boston is on its way up while we are on the way down.
        your pal,
        ebrian

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        • #19
          special1 wrote: View Post
          Quick question.....

          Why do we need to sign our guys first? What if we just signed (whoever we target) first and then signed our guys to go over the cap?

          Having asked those questions, I have no idea with regards to the cap holds of our players.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          You're right--we don't have to sign ours first.
          I'll defer to Dan but cap holds are like 18 for each of Lowry and Ibaka and 10 for PJ I think. So in the oringal posters example of getting us down to 40 mill the cap holds of those 3 would bring us to 86. So like 15 million bucks leftover. Not much, especially when we just dumped the entire bench and 2 starters for nothing.

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          • #20
            LJ2 wrote: View Post

            So give me some ideas on what you think Masai can pull of this off season. How can we improve next season?
            Personally, I'd like to see this:

            Retain Lowry, Ibaka, DeRozan, Powell & Tucker. Change the coach.

            Unload JV, Cojo, Patterson & Carrol (packaged with the draft pick if need be), and Tucker if necessary, to make room to sign JJ Redick & Joe Ingles (or Danilo Gallinari).

            On summer camp make the sole job of the following players to hone their already blossoming 3-point stroke: Powell, Fred, Tucker.

            Also on summer camp, have Wright start to develop a passable, confident 3 (He won't survive on this league as a Point Guard without one) and have DeRozan almost exclusively work on Defence.

            In the fall:

            PG: Lowry/Fred/Wright
            SG: DeRozan/Redick/Powell
            SF: Ingles (or Galinari)/Tucker
            PF: Ibaka/Siakam/Bruno
            C: Poeltl/Nogueira

            There are 13 players above. Complete the roster with the draft pick (though we might have to give it up to unload Carrol), and have Heslip fill the new "Hybrid" 15th man (that straddles the D-league and the main club)

            Of course the above is much, much easier said than done and a bit of a pipe dream, but imo the essence of the off-season should be this: Change the coach, unload salary (starting with poor fit role players), acquire high quality shooters so we're not outscored by 100+ from deep again next year against the Cavs.
            Last edited by inthepaint; Sat May 20th, 2017, 03:26 PM.

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            • #21
              inthepaint wrote: View Post
              Personally, I'd like to see this:

              Retain Lowry, Ibaka, DeRozan, Powell & Tucker. Change the coach.

              Unload JV, Cojo, Patterson & Carrol (packaged with the draft pick if need be), and Tucker if necessary, to make room to sign JJ Redick & Joe Ingles (or Danilo Gallinari).

              On summer camp make the sole job of the following players to hone their already blossoming 3-point stroke: Powell, Fred, Tucker.

              Also on summer camp, have Wright start to develop a passable, confident 3 (He won't survive on this league as a Point Guard without one) and have DeRozan almost exclusively work on Defence.

              In the fall:

              PG: Lowry/Fred/Wright
              SG: DeRozan/Redick/Powell
              SF: Ingles (or Galinari)/Tucker
              PF: Ibaka/Siakam/Bruno
              C: Poeltl/Nogueira

              There are 13 players above. Complete the roster with the draft pick (though we might have to give it up to unload Carrol), and have Heslip fill the new "Hybrid" 15th man (that straddles the D-league and the main club)

              Of course the above is much, much easier said than done and a bit of a pipe dream, but imo the essence of the off-season should be this: Change the coach, unload salary (starting with poor fit role players), acquire high quality shooters so we're not outscored by 100+ from deep again next year against the Cavs.
              FYI - there are two guys that can "straddle", and they take the roster up to 17.

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              • #22
                DanH wrote: View Post
                Only way to have cap space to sign Millsap, assuming he wants something close to the max, is to let Lowry, Ibaka, Patterson and Tucker walk, plus find a team to take on one of Carroll or JV's contracts.

                Personally I'd oppose such a plan.
                Doesn't seem realistic.

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                • #23
                  The only way for MLSE to truly flex their muscle, and we've been building up to it for a while now, is to sign our own guys and be unafraid of the tax.

                  We are not the Nets, with nary a development asset in sight, we've got the youth movement to make it work in the long term.

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                  • #24
                    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                    We are not the Nets, with nary a development asset in sight, we've got the youth movement to make it work in the long term.
                    Caris Levert looks to have higher upside than any of our prospects. RHJ is decent and they have the same number of first round picks as we do going forward. They have two this year and next year is the last year they give one away to Boston.

                    We have more prospects right now but the gap in our stables is narrowing, and will probably flip over by 2019.

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                    • #25
                      LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      Yeah Boston is poised to potentially dethrone the Cav's in the next few years. As much as I disliked Ainge the player, he's been a terrific GM thus far.

                      So give me some ideas on what you think Masai can pull of this off season. How can we improve next season?
                      boston can still make some wrong moves or have injuries that do not help. People forget the chest injuries Horford has had in the past. They do have cap space though.

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                      • #26
                        rightsideup wrote: View Post
                        boston can still make some wrong moves or have injuries that do not help. People forget the chest injuries Horford has had in the past. They do have cap space though.
                        Hoping other teams make wrong moves or have injuries isn't really a plan, is it?
                        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                        • #27
                          Scraptor wrote: View Post
                          Caris Levert looks to have higher upside than any of our prospects. RHJ is decent and they have the same number of first round picks as we do going forward. They have two this year and next year is the last year they give one away to Boston.

                          We have more prospects right now but the gap in our stables is narrowing, and will probably flip over by 2019.
                          So after two more years of being in last place in the league the Nets stable of young players will probably surpass a perennial top-4 playoffs team's. I guess that's looking on the bright side.....

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                          • #28
                            3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                            Hoping other teams make wrong moves or have injuries isn't really a plan, is it?
                            No, but there's an underlying assumption in a lot of these discussions that Toronto will be left behind in 3-4 years as all these teams with all these picks and young players become dominant or something. You have people arguing to blow up a 50-win team on that basis. It seems only fair to point out, that the NBA doesn't work that way and a lot of these teams (like 99% of them) that are destined to DOMINATE AND RULE THE NBA will not. So, while hoping other teams screw up isn't a good plan, it also isn't a good idea to base your arguments about the team on your subjective analysis of how good all these young generational superstars are going to be (most of whom are nowhere close to that)....

                            Yeah, Boston might be really good next year, or they may not. Raps need to do their own thing.

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