just how bad was the 2016_17 season

[Scraptor]

This season was fine, what were the expectations if not - 60 wins and on par with Lebron in the playoffs? This is not a 60 win year-in-year-out roster, and this team is nowhere near Lebron's level in the playoffs.

If this year was anything it was an ice-bucket-of-water reminder that only a small handful of superstars win 80% of the championships in the NBA. The Raptors do not have one of those guys. Doing better than they did (the soft way they lost to the Cavs aside) would take a perfect storm of positive circumstances for Toronto and negative circumstances for Cleveland. The NBA generally just doesn't do upsets, as much as we fans want to believe in our own team.

Nothing's really changed other than the honeymoon is over for Raptors fans who now have expectations. This roster still has to be better to be a contender, but we've known that all along.

I don't think this is quite accurate. I think very few Raptors fans expected to beat the Cavs.

I do think expectations were that we would at least show an ounce of competitiveness with them. That we could at least match the Pacers in keeping things close with the Cavs. That we would take care of business with the Bucks instead of going down 2-1 to an inexperienced, lesser-talented team.

Those are reasonable expectations, especially after we made key moves at the deadline. Failing to meet them does not mean the expectations were incorrect and that the season was fine, just because we don't have a superstar. Glossing over our shortcomings is only going to lead to the same mistakes being repeated in the future.

[Jclaw]

5th best record in the league while dealing with injuries and integrating core players at the end of the season. Lose to the unbeatable (for now) Cavs? Couldn't have realistically asked for much more

[psrs1]

Status quo ceiling is ECF if get seeding right. Logically I think that is goal for MLSE though as a fan would like to see similar core with different coach.

[rightsideup]

All good points expectations were high after last season and the regular season certainly had its ups and downs. I do not think any expected the bucks to be an easy out as the closed the season on fire. We needed kyle to be competitive at home against the lebron's with the Celtics gutting out a win it will be interesting how that series goes. Hellva a game by boston. As far as the forecast for next year it will be interesting to see how the pieces move and the salaries will be quite challenging.

[A.I]

Are you guys high on Fultz? I don't think he's a difference maker for Celtics.

Fultz is a potential future star. Honestly I think you take Fultz and trade IT in the near future. IT is good, but his height makes him a liability defensively.

[MixxAOR]

Fultz is a potential future star. Honestly I think you take Fultz and trade IT in the near future. IT is good, but his height makes him a liability defensively.

What about Fultz's defense? He's lost from what I hear?

[Axel]

With the Celtics getting trounced even worse by the Lebron's than the raptor's (assuming they get thumped) hard can we put the season into a different perspective now. The bracket as Masai mentioned in his pressor really hurt us.

Does the fact that the Celtics won last night change anything?

Personally it's all irrelevant because it's all about what the Raptors did (or more accurately didn't do). They Raps weren't competitive vs Cavs and didn't seem to elevate their game vs the Bucks despite the additions of Ibaka and Tucker - so more of the same old from this group. The way this group played against the Bucks, I'm not really confident that the Raps would have faired much better against the Wiz or Celtics if they had met in round 2.

[rightsideup]

I guess thru this discussion I am trying to find out what everyone's expectations were and I agree that the competiveness of the team in the playoffs was disappointing and going forward Masai will have to make decisions based on any inside information he has. Which players were playing hurt and can they recover. Who are his building blocks of a successful next level type team. I am referring to everyone in the organization not just players.

[rightsideup]

Does the fact that the Celtics won last night change anything?

Personally it's all irrelevant because it's all about what the Raptors did (or more accurately didn't do). They Raps weren't competitive and didn't seem to elevate their game vs the Bucks despite the additions of Ibaka and Tucker - so more of the same old from this group. The way this group played against the Bucks, I'm not really confident that the Raps would have fairer much better against the Wiz or Celtics if they had met in round 2.

totally agree just looking at what type of fight the raps put up against Cleveland vs boston. With out a doubt they need to step on the throat of a team like the bucks who may have a good future but we were playing in the present.

[DogeLover1234]

What about Fultz's defense? He's lost from what I hear?

I don't think you can gleam much from his D at Washington. He tried more as the season went on, but I mean he did everything on offense and even with good defense that team was so bad at rebounding that it ended up with a basket. He has the tools though, and had some incredible blocks. He had stretches where his D looked real good too.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I view the 2016/2017 season as further proof of what the general consensus has been for the past 3-4 seasons; the Raptors with the current core (ie: Casey, Lowry & DeRozan) are in the top-tier of non-contender teams. They are great in the regular season and should win a round or two in the playoffs, but aren't a legitimate threat for the title.

It's fun to watch 'our' team win, especially after 20 years of futility, but with expectations increasing this Cinderella has lost her slipper. Unfortunately, there seems to be no chance for this team as currently constructed to truly contend, since the core has reached its ceiling and the team is well beyond being capped out (if the core is to be kept together).

I think that's why this offseason feels like such a crossroads for the team (coaching staff and roster), given the decisive reality check delivered by LBJ & co. Is that status quo of winning but not contending sufficient for MLSE (great for profitability), or is it time to retool/rebuild in the hopes of increasing the team's competitive ceiling in the long-term?

[LJ2]

I view the 2016/2017 season as further proof of what the general consensus has been for the past 3-4 seasons; the Raptors with the current core (ie: Casey, Lowry & DeRozan) are in the top-tier of non-contender teams. They are great in the regular season and should win a round or two in the playoffs, but aren't a legitimate threat for the title.

It's fun to watch 'our' team win, especially after 20 years of futility, but with expectations increasing this Cinderella has lost her slipper. Unfortunately, there seems to be no chance for this team as currently constructed to truly contend, since the core has reached its ceiling and the team is well beyond being capped out (if the core is to be kept together).

I think that's why this offseason feels like such a crossroads for the team (coaching staff and roster), given the decisive reality check delivered by LBJ & co. Is that status quo of winning but not contending sufficient for MLSE (great for profitability), or is it time to retool/rebuild in the hopes of increasing the team's competitive ceiling in the long-term?

I'd be surprised if they decide to rebuild. Not because I think they are content with the reality of not being a true contender, but because playing the lotto is such a crap shoot. Look how long Minnesota, Philly, and the like have sucked. It's not a one or two year commitment. You can be a bottom dweller for 10 years easy and still not have a legit top 10 type of player to build around.

[3inthekeon]

I'd be surprised if they decide to rebuild. Not because I think they are content with the reality of not being a true contender, but because playing the lotto is such a crap shoot. Look how long Minnesota, Philly, and the like have sucked. It's not a one or two year commitment. You can be a bottom dweller for 10 years easy and still not have a legit top 10 type of player to build around.

And even if we bottom out and land a future top 10 player, are we going to be as good as or better than the Celtics (or even the 76'ers or Bucks) in the foreseeable future? Doubtful at best.

[LJ2]

And even if we bottom out and land a future top 10 player, are we going to be as good as or better than the Celtics (or even the 76'ers or Bucks) in the foreseeable future? Doubtful at best.

That's tough to say. Celtics don't have anyone that is a legit top 10 NBA player to build around, but much like the Raptors they have a lot of above average talent to make up for that true star. Right now the Raptors roster is the better of the two, but we seemingly are not able to improve while Boston is looking at a top pick this year and high picks to come. Can't say if any of those top picks will become anything in the NBA.

I'm not high on Philly at all, or the Bucks for that matter. Too many injury issues with their young talent.

A good off season for me is the Raptors signing Lowry and Ibaka. Once we have our best assets locked in we can wait for the right opportunity to flip them in a rebuild, if that's what it comes to.

[Abbas]

How's this for a off-season

Sign Jrue Holiday, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, PJT, and a SF/PF free agent (VC and Bosh?)

Trade - JV, Carroll, Cojo/Wright, and 23rd pick to Spurs for LMA and salary fillers

Starting Line Ups
Holiday- Wright
DeRozan - Powell
Gallinari - PJT
Aldridge - Bosh
Ibaka - Jakob

Shooting plus DeRozan
Holiday
DeRozan
Tucker
Gallinari
Ibaka

All Defense
Holiday
Powell
Tucker
Bosh
Ibaka

All Offense
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Closing
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh