just how bad was the 2016_17 season

[Axel]

How'd that work out for the Pacers, Heat and Bucks (this year).

It's funny that we only lost to the Cavs (the champions), in the last 2 playoffs.

Who cares if other teams don't respect us, we still won vs everyone except the Cavs (in the last 2 playoffs).

So that argument about no respect doesn't actually translate to them winning the series, it's pointless.

If we can barely beat teams that are worse than us, how are we still improving with a capped out roster and a core that isn't that young?

[3inthekeon]

Don't think this has been posted, but an outside observer's (Kevin Pelton) assessment of our young guys

Question#peltonmailbag: Can you rank the Raptors young guys? Powell-Wright-Poeltl-Bebe -VanFleet..and yes Bruno. Any rotation pieces there?

1. Norman Powell. Clearly the best player now, at a scarce position and an incredible bargain for next season at the minimum -- though a candidate to get paid in free agency in a year.

2. Jakob Poeltl. Proved capable of playing rotation minutes in the playoffs at age 21. Biggest issue here is the abundance of capable centers in the league.

3. Delon Wright. Could capably serve as a backup point guard next season. Will he get the opportunity? Valuable rookie contract years dwindling.

4. Lucas Nogueira. Probably capable of playing backup minutes, but the fact that the coaching staff favored the younger Poeltl is a little concerning. Entering the last year of his rookie contract and not especially cheap at about $3 million.

5. Pascal Siakam. Started 38 games as a rookie but still so unmemorable that you left him off your list. Needs to either prove he can protect the rim as a center or add an outside shot to be able to play power forward.

6. Fred VanVleet. Ideal as a third point guard. Will run the offense and make a few shots, and won't hurt you while he's on the court.

7. Bruno Caboclo. Has been unspectacular in the D-League, and despite still being just 21, he hasn't shown much in the way of upside. At best, I think he turns into a 3-and-D role player. And massively overpaid for next season at $2.5 million unless he unexpectedly pushes for playing time.

[3inthekeon]

If we can barely beat teams that are worse than us, how are we still improving with a capped out roster and a core that isn't that young?

The answer to this is: we're not, but it's still better than the alternatives.

[golden]

It's not about entitlement at all. It's about being realistic.

At what point do you decide that what you're doing isn't working? Do we have to go seven years without making a Finals? Eight? Ten?

No one expects guaranteed success. What people want is the hope of competing against the best. This year we made serious moves and still got absolutely wrecked. It seems utterly delusional to measure this season as a success and to put the blame on expectations.

One reason the treadmill term exists is because as you are running in place other teams are getting better. In 3-5 years when Lebron, KD, and Curry are fading, the Wolves and the Sixers may be leapfrogging ahead of us.

To compete in the NBA you need a superlative talent. If we had a legit superstar to retool around you wouldn't hear any tanking talk. But we just don't have that guy.

Do I think we should rebuild? Probably not. But it shouldn't be ruled out with such derision. There is a chance that not even a new coach gives us the edge we need. If Masai takes a look at the roster and makes that assessment then a teardown is perfectly valid.

But given that Casey seems to be coming back, it seems more likely that there is no imperative for real change when a 50-win season stretched out over most of the year will satisfy the fanbase, who seem to quickly forget about a couple weeks of playoff failure.

That good old "treadmill" word popped up again a few times. A couple of old articles below on that beaten-to-death topic. Basic premise is that one strategy to become a legit contender is to stay on the high-end treadmill and be ready to pounce when an all-star shakes loose (e.g. Butler, George, etc...). I think that's what the Raps are trying to do. The biggest beef I have with Masai is that if you don't have Lebron, then you need a genius level coach (e.g. Pop, Carlisle, Stevens, etc...). Casey is a decent coach and a great representative of the organization, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody refer to him as a genius.

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/26/wh...of-mediocrity/

So the next time your team makes the playoffs and you hear someone say that next season they need to tank if they ever want to really compete? Well, if you really want to compete, you had better hope your front office doesn’t take this advice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...b_1382351.html

But the draft is uncertain and it’s also quite possible the Blazers will find someone who won’t be “excellent.”

But if you are close — like the Blazers were — your best bet is to find one or two more players that will get you into the promise land. Based on the data, giving away one of your most productive players for the hope of something better is simply not a very good strategy. And given what we see from the history of “excellent” teams, the Blazers — if they are reduced to a team that is not good enough to win 40 games in 2012-13 — are now that much further from finding excellence (and making Henry Abbott happy).

[Fully]

One of the 5 youngest? We were the 15th youngest by weighted minutes played. ie. Our best players are older. They have also hit their ceilings so we will be getting older next year without getting growth out of them. We don't have a single blue chip prospect under 22 for the start of next season.

Yes, we were tied for fifth in the league in terms of average age on our roster. With regards to the weighted minutes portion, you make it seem like being tied sixth in the league for wins while still flooring the 15th youngest team in the league is an indictment of some sort? How many other playoff teams ended up "younger" than the Raptors in terms of weighted minutes? Can't be more than 5 or 6, and I doubt more than one or two one a playoff series this offseason. We're not in a terrible spot age wise with our roster considering the strong correlation in the NBA between experience and winning. And how many good teams have blue chippers under the age of 22 by the way? Boston will be one in a month's time, but I can't really think of any others off the top of my head. Strong teams get low draft picks - that's kind of the entire crux of the draft system.

We don't have plenty of assets either. We have Norman Powell and a collection of question marks. Our picks are all late first rounders with marginal value.

Why isn't DeRozan considered an asset? A re-signed Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker or 2Pat? Jonas? Norm? Delon Wright or Poetl? I feel like you're falling into the pit where you assume that the opening night version of our roster in October will be locked in for the next 5 years. Maybe you trade one of those guys in the next year. Hell, maybe you trade them all. From where I'm sitting, we have one piece of dead weight on the roster (Carroll) and everyone else holds some type of value in a hypothetical trade. I don't foresee Masai handing out these contracts this summer and then putting his feet up until the deals run out.

[Fully]

We still are come playoff time. Nobody respects this team and everyone believes that we are a favourable matchup.

This seems way over the top. The list of teams with 3 or more playoff series wins in the last two seasons: Warriors, Cavs, Spurs and Raptors. That's it. Relax with the hyperbole.