just how bad was the 2016_17 season

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Everyone not named the Warriors or Cavs has proven themselves to be outside of the contender tier during the last three seasons though. Spurs, Raptors, Clippers, Rockets, Hawks, Celtics, Grizzlies, etc. They've all reeled off good regular seasons over the last three seasons and none of them have been anywhere near a title. Kind of a unique situation the NBA has found themselves right now where you can be the clear cut, third best team in the league and still have next to no chance at even making the Finals.

And I'm not saying that we should just accept being a second or third round out in the playoffs year after year, and that the team shouldn't work feverishly to somehow break into that next echelon, I'm just wondering where we draw the line with the "not a true contender so might as well retool the roster" stuff... Should Houston break it up? Clippers? Spurs? Wizards? How long do we give a team like the Jazz to become a "legit threat" for the title before they should scrap it? One or two more years?

I used to think the term "treadmill team" was reserved for those franchises spinning their wheels over a 4 or 5 year span just to try and get a bottom seed in the playoffs - but now I feel like it means any team that goes a few seasons without vying for the title. However in the current NBA climate that means every team from 3rd in the league on down.

Fair enough, but the Raptors are going to have to become a luxury tax team just to keep the current roster together, which seems to have reached its ceiling. The all-star PG is getting older and has proven to be injury prone, the all-NBA leading scorer only plays on one end of the court and can be shut down by a good defense, and the head coach seems to be sitting on at least a fairly warm seat.

All that doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this team is poised to show any sign of improvement in the next season or two, so the question is do you wait to retool until the decision is made for you (ie: Lowry chooses to leave, Casey's contract is up, etc...), or do you proactively make a move now in order to have the improvements come to fruition as the Cavs/Warriors dominance window is closing a couple seasons from now?

[Fully]

I view the 2016/2017 season as further proof of what the general consensus has been for the past 3-4 seasons; the Raptors with the current core (ie: Casey, Lowry & DeRozan) are in the top-tier of non-contender teams. They are great in the regular season and should win a round or two in the playoffs, but aren't a legitimate threat for the title.

It's fun to watch 'our' team win, especially after 20 years of futility, but with expectations increasing this Cinderella has lost her slipper. Unfortunately, there seems to be no chance for this team as currently constructed to truly contend, since the core has reached its ceiling and the team is well beyond being capped out (if the core is to be kept together).

I think that's why this offseason feels like such a crossroads for the team (coaching staff and roster), given the decisive reality check delivered by LBJ & co. Is that status quo of winning but not contending sufficient for MLSE (great for profitability), or is it time to retool/rebuild in the hopes of increasing the team's competitive ceiling in the long-term?

Everyone not named the Warriors or Cavs has proven themselves to be outside of the contender tier during the last three seasons though. Spurs, Raptors, Clippers, Rockets, Hawks, Celtics, Grizzlies, etc. They've all reeled off good regular seasons over the last three seasons and none of them have been anywhere near a title. Kind of a unique situation the NBA has found themselves right now where you can be the clear cut, third best team in the league and still have next to no chance at even making the Finals.

And I'm not saying that we should just accept being a second or third round out in the playoffs year after year, and that the team shouldn't work feverishly to somehow break into that next echelon, I'm just wondering where we draw the line with the "not a true contender so might as well retool the roster" stuff... Should Houston break it up? Clippers? Spurs? Wizards? How long do we give a team like the Jazz to become a "legit threat" for the title before they should scrap it? One or two more years?

I used to think the term "treadmill team" was reserved for those franchises spinning their wheels over a 4 or 5 year span just to try and get a bottom seed in the playoffs - but now I feel like it means any team that goes a few seasons without vying for the title. However in the current NBA climate that means every team from 3rd in the league on down.

[special1]

Uh, with what cap space?

We talking bout cap space?

Cap space? Cap space??


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[A.I]

How's this for a off-season

Sign Jrue Holiday, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, PJT, and a SF/PF free agent (VC and Bosh?)

Trade - JV, Carroll, Cojo/Wright, and 23rd pick to Spurs for LMA and salary fillers

Starting Line Ups
Holiday- Wright
DeRozan - Powell
Gallinari - PJT
Aldridge - Bosh
Ibaka - Jakob

Shooting plus DeRozan
Holiday
DeRozan
Tucker
Gallinari
Ibaka

All Defense
Holiday
Powell
Tucker
Bosh
Ibaka

All Offense
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Closing
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Your scenarios get crazier and crazier.

[Mindlessness]

Uh, with what cap space?

We'll all pitch in with $5 each!

[SkywalkerAC]

How's this for a off-season

Sign Jrue Holiday, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, PJT, and a SF/PF free agent (VC and Bosh?)

Trade - JV, Carroll, Cojo/Wright, and 23rd pick to Spurs for LMA and salary fillers

Starting Line Ups
Holiday- Wright
DeRozan - Powell
Gallinari - PJT
Aldridge - Bosh
Ibaka - Jakob

Shooting plus DeRozan
Holiday
DeRozan
Tucker
Gallinari
Ibaka

All Defense
Holiday
Powell
Tucker
Bosh
Ibaka

All Offense
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Closing
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Uh, with what cap space?

[Abbas]

How's this for a off-season

Sign Jrue Holiday, Danilo Gallinari, Serge Ibaka, PJT, and a SF/PF free agent (VC and Bosh?)

Trade - JV, Carroll, Cojo/Wright, and 23rd pick to Spurs for LMA and salary fillers

Starting Line Ups
Holiday- Wright
DeRozan - Powell
Gallinari - PJT
Aldridge - Bosh
Ibaka - Jakob

Shooting plus DeRozan
Holiday
DeRozan
Tucker
Gallinari
Ibaka

All Defense
Holiday
Powell
Tucker
Bosh
Ibaka

All Offense
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

Closing
Holiday
DeRozan
Gallinari
Aldridge
Bosh

[LJ2]

And even if we bottom out and land a future top 10 player, are we going to be as good as or better than the Celtics (or even the 76'ers or Bucks) in the foreseeable future? Doubtful at best.

That's tough to say. Celtics don't have anyone that is a legit top 10 NBA player to build around, but much like the Raptors they have a lot of above average talent to make up for that true star. Right now the Raptors roster is the better of the two, but we seemingly are not able to improve while Boston is looking at a top pick this year and high picks to come. Can't say if any of those top picks will become anything in the NBA.

I'm not high on Philly at all, or the Bucks for that matter. Too many injury issues with their young talent.

A good off season for me is the Raptors signing Lowry and Ibaka. Once we have our best assets locked in we can wait for the right opportunity to flip them in a rebuild, if that's what it comes to.

[3inthekeon]

I'd be surprised if they decide to rebuild. Not because I think they are content with the reality of not being a true contender, but because playing the lotto is such a crap shoot. Look how long Minnesota, Philly, and the like have sucked. It's not a one or two year commitment. You can be a bottom dweller for 10 years easy and still not have a legit top 10 type of player to build around.

And even if we bottom out and land a future top 10 player, are we going to be as good as or better than the Celtics (or even the 76'ers or Bucks) in the foreseeable future? Doubtful at best.

[LJ2]

I view the 2016/2017 season as further proof of what the general consensus has been for the past 3-4 seasons; the Raptors with the current core (ie: Casey, Lowry & DeRozan) are in the top-tier of non-contender teams. They are great in the regular season and should win a round or two in the playoffs, but aren't a legitimate threat for the title.

It's fun to watch 'our' team win, especially after 20 years of futility, but with expectations increasing this Cinderella has lost her slipper. Unfortunately, there seems to be no chance for this team as currently constructed to truly contend, since the core has reached its ceiling and the team is well beyond being capped out (if the core is to be kept together).

I think that's why this offseason feels like such a crossroads for the team (coaching staff and roster), given the decisive reality check delivered by LBJ & co. Is that status quo of winning but not contending sufficient for MLSE (great for profitability), or is it time to retool/rebuild in the hopes of increasing the team's competitive ceiling in the long-term?

I'd be surprised if they decide to rebuild. Not because I think they are content with the reality of not being a true contender, but because playing the lotto is such a crap shoot. Look how long Minnesota, Philly, and the like have sucked. It's not a one or two year commitment. You can be a bottom dweller for 10 years easy and still not have a legit top 10 type of player to build around.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I view the 2016/2017 season as further proof of what the general consensus has been for the past 3-4 seasons; the Raptors with the current core (ie: Casey, Lowry & DeRozan) are in the top-tier of non-contender teams. They are great in the regular season and should win a round or two in the playoffs, but aren't a legitimate threat for the title.

It's fun to watch 'our' team win, especially after 20 years of futility, but with expectations increasing this Cinderella has lost her slipper. Unfortunately, there seems to be no chance for this team as currently constructed to truly contend, since the core has reached its ceiling and the team is well beyond being capped out (if the core is to be kept together).

I think that's why this offseason feels like such a crossroads for the team (coaching staff and roster), given the decisive reality check delivered by LBJ & co. Is that status quo of winning but not contending sufficient for MLSE (great for profitability), or is it time to retool/rebuild in the hopes of increasing the team's competitive ceiling in the long-term?

[DogeLover1234]

What about Fultz's defense? He's lost from what I hear?

I don't think you can gleam much from his D at Washington. He tried more as the season went on, but I mean he did everything on offense and even with good defense that team was so bad at rebounding that it ended up with a basket. He has the tools though, and had some incredible blocks. He had stretches where his D looked real good too.

[rightsideup]

Does the fact that the Celtics won last night change anything?

Personally it's all irrelevant because it's all about what the Raptors did (or more accurately didn't do). They Raps weren't competitive and didn't seem to elevate their game vs the Bucks despite the additions of Ibaka and Tucker - so more of the same old from this group. The way this group played against the Bucks, I'm not really confident that the Raps would have fairer much better against the Wiz or Celtics if they had met in round 2.

totally agree just looking at what type of fight the raps put up against Cleveland vs boston. With out a doubt they need to step on the throat of a team like the bucks who may have a good future but we were playing in the present.

[rightsideup]

I guess thru this discussion I am trying to find out what everyone's expectations were and I agree that the competiveness of the team in the playoffs was disappointing and going forward Masai will have to make decisions based on any inside information he has. Which players were playing hurt and can they recover. Who are his building blocks of a successful next level type team. I am referring to everyone in the organization not just players.

[Axel]

With the Celtics getting trounced even worse by the Lebron's than the raptor's (assuming they get thumped) hard can we put the season into a different perspective now. The bracket as Masai mentioned in his pressor really hurt us.

Does the fact that the Celtics won last night change anything?

Personally it's all irrelevant because it's all about what the Raptors did (or more accurately didn't do). They Raps weren't competitive vs Cavs and didn't seem to elevate their game vs the Bucks despite the additions of Ibaka and Tucker - so more of the same old from this group. The way this group played against the Bucks, I'm not really confident that the Raps would have faired much better against the Wiz or Celtics if they had met in round 2.