Everything OG Anunoby

[Apollo]

I don't think he has a huge leap in his game coming, and even without that I think he's absolutely crucial to the team and should only be traded for a superstar. His particular skillset is generally of way more value on a team than on the trade market, and underratedly hard to replace.

That's fair, that's your opinion but the team is going to look different in a few years and he might not be as vital as you think as Masai continues to build this thing out.

Don't rule out a team overpaying to land him. He's an appealing player as you say and some think he has that next level and that might be all Masai needs to secure a trade that moves the team upwards faster and avoids a situation where they're choosing between giving him a massive contract they're uncomfortable with or letting him walk or getting insufficient value back. Also, if they move on from him they don't need to replace him like you'd replace your muffler if it fell off a car. They may look to slightly shift things around for the better, however that might look. This isn't a championship team yet, it's a developing team and I don't know if they're too hung up on much outside Scottie; if really put to the test by way of a nice offer.

[Limited Upside]

How do you define "great"? I don't think he's a top 5 defender in the league or anything. And I think a lot of Raptor fans believe he is, thus that makes him overrated. There are levels to everything.

He's a really good defender, but in my opinion, he doesn't elevate the team defensively enough. An elite (top 5 / 10) defender should raise the defensive profile of the entire team.

I think Chris Boucher had more of an impact on our defense this past year than OG has. And nobody screams defensive savant when they watch Boucher play.

Nobody screams that because it's not true. It's crazy to suggest Boucher and OG have remotely similar impacts on Raptors D.

Top 5 in the league? Maybe not, but close. Take a look at the NBA All Defense teams this year. Who's more versatile? To me, that list looks good for one-on-one defenders, but OG is a different breed. Maybe only Draymond, Smart are in that category. Maybe Giannis. Gobert, Thybulle, Bam, Jrue: one-dimensional defenders. Will accept arguments for Bridges and Jackson Jr, but they've done it for one year while OG has been doing it since Day 1 and is still only 24.

Then, if we're talking not just D but overall value, OG can do a lot more on the other end vs. Smart, Gobert, Thybulle, etc.

Overrating the value of OG to this team is tough to do.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I don't think he has a huge leap in his game coming, and even without that I think he's absolutely crucial to the team and should only be traded for a superstar. His particular skillset is generally of way more value on a team than on the trade market, and underratedly hard to replace.

I don't think he needs to be making massive leaps either.. Siakam spoiled us by making everyone think that type of development is normal.

[Shredder]

I think the only knock on OG is durability. For such a big, lumbering dude, he does seem to get hurt often. Most of it is just bad luck.

Him trying to nurse back from injury, or just find his rhythm after some time off has affected his growth as a player.

It seems like every time he is starting to string some games together, where you can see that "next step" he gets an unfortunate setback.

I love the guy. It was one of the few draft picks that I was stoked on immediately (given he fell to us).

Given his age and skillset, I can see him on the team for a long time. In saying that, if we were to trade him it would have to be for a haul. Something Portland and Utah couldn't offer. (I don't think we would want multiple first round picks from Portland given our production last year).

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think the only knock on OG is durability. For such a big, lumbering dude, he does seem to get hurt often. Most of it is just bad luck.

Him trying to nurse back from injury, or just find his rhythm after some time off has affected his growth as a player.

It seems like every time he is starting to string some games together, where you can see that "next step" he gets an unfortunate setback.

I love the guy. It was one of the few draft picks that I was stoked on immediately (given he fell to us).

Given his age and skillset, I can see him on the team for a long time. In saying that, if we were to trade him it would have to be for a haul. Something Portland and Utah couldn't offer. (I don't think we would want multiple first round picks from Portland given our production last year).

he definitely isn't lumbering htough

[golden]

I think the only knock on OG is durability. For such a big, lumbering dude, he does seem to get hurt often. Most of it is just bad luck.

Him trying to nurse back from injury, or just find his rhythm after some time off has affected his growth as a player.

It seems like every time he is starting to string some games together, where you can see that "next step" he gets an unfortunate setback.

I love the guy. It was one of the few draft picks that I was stoked on immediately (given he fell to us).

Given his age and skillset, I can see him on the team for a long time. In saying that, if we were to trade him it would have to be for a haul. Something Portland and Utah couldn't offer. (I don't think we would want multiple first round picks from Portland given our production last year).

If Portland offers a couple of future un-protected picks, in addition to players, then you have to consider it. They could be really bad for a while when the team is sold and Dame is auctioned off. Unprotected FRPs from future crappy teams can be really valuable, like when Ainge fleeced the Nets for picks that eventually that became Tatum and Brown.

[planetmars]

Nobody screams that because it's not true. It's crazy to suggest Boucher and OG have remotely similar impacts on Raptors D.

Top 5 in the league? Maybe not, but close. Take a look at the NBA All Defense teams this year. Who's more versatile? To me, that list looks good for one-on-one defenders, but OG is a different breed. Maybe only Draymond, Smart are in that category. Maybe Giannis. Gobert, Thybulle, Bam, Jrue: one-dimensional defenders. Will accept arguments for Bridges and Jackson Jr, but they've done it for one year while OG has been doing it since Day 1 and is still only 24.

Then, if we're talking not just D but overall value, OG can do a lot more on the other end vs. Smart, Gobert, Thybulle, etc.

Overrating the value of OG to this team is tough to do.

But he's not elevating his team. We had the 9th best defense this year. 15th last year (and 15th out of 16 teams in the playoffs this year). That's just not good enough. Boston, Golden State and Miami had one of the best defenses in the league. Gobert typically carries the Jazz defense, who is usually in the top 5 (but not this year, and is why he wasn't the DPOY).

That's not entirely on him. Nurse likes to have his guys be aggressive by creating extra possessions. That means there will be a lot of times where we are out of position. Also we have other guys on the team that aren't good defensively. Scottie is a rookie. Trent doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of his guy. Fred was hurt near the end of the season, and in the playoffs. That all matters too.

But I don't think OG is a great communicator. I don't see him being a defensive leader. I think he takes plays off on defense as well. He could be a much better rebounder for his size. And I do think you could get guys that are good defenders but give you something else. Like facilitating. Or more help on the boards, etc. But he's still also really young and is paid well.

Boucher is coming off the bench so it's not a fair comparison. But statistically Boucher has been the better defender. He does more of the hustle work that helps us gain possessions than OG has.

[Primer]

How do you define "great"? I don't think he's a top 5 defender in the league or anything. And I think a lot of Raptor fans believe he is, thus that makes him overrated. There are levels to everything.

He's a really good defender, but in my opinion, he doesn't elevate the team defensively enough. An elite (top 5 / 10) defender should raise the defensive profile of the entire team.

I think Chris Boucher had more of an impact on our defense this past year than OG has. And nobody screams defensive savant when they watch Boucher play.

Holy crap man if you think Boucher has more of an impact on our defense than OG I have no idea what to tell you. That is batshit insane.

I'll quote Dan's data from another thread as proof OG does elevate the whole team defensively and is our most impactful defender.

"That shows up in the playoffs when they stop playing generically and try to maintain best defensive matchups and its no surprise he had an absolutely wild on/off defensive impact compared to the rest of the starters against Philly this year (defense was 7 points better with OG on the court than without him, while every other starter - besides Khem - ranged from the defense being 4 points worse to 14 points worse when they were on the court). Whole thing just falls apart without him especially against the opponents where his defense matters the most."

[TrueTorontoFan]

But he's not elevating his team. We had the 9th best defense this year. 15th last year (and 15th out of 16 teams in the playoffs this year). That's just not good enough. Boston, Golden State and Miami had one of the best defenses in the league. Gobert typically carries the Jazz defense, who is usually in the top 5 (but not this year, and is why he wasn't the DPOY).

That's not entirely on him. Nurse likes to have his guys be aggressive by creating extra possessions. That means there will be a lot of times where we are out of position. Also we have other guys on the team that aren't good defensively. Scottie is a rookie. Trent doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of his guy. Fred was hurt near the end of the season, and in the playoffs. That all matters too.

But I don't think OG is a great communicator. I don't see him being a defensive leader. I think he takes plays off on defense as well. He could be a much better rebounder for his size. And I do think you could get guys that are good defenders but give you something else. Like facilitating. Or more help on the boards, etc. But he's still also really young and is paid well.

Boucher is coming off the bench so it's not a fair comparison. But statistically Boucher has been the better defender. He does more of the hustle work that helps us gain possessions than OG has.

Since January we were top 5 in defence.

I agree though he isn't a great communicator he isn't like gasol. The biggest communicator on defence is scottie.

[planetmars]

Since January we were top 5 in defence.

I agree though he isn't a great communicator he isn't like gasol. The biggest communicator on defence is scottie.

We are also 15th in the playoffs.

[planetmars]

Holy crap man if you think Boucher has more of an impact on our defense than OG I have no idea what to tell you. That is batshit insane.

I'll quote Dan's data from another thread as proof OG does elevate the whole team defensively and is our most impactful defender.

"That shows up in the playoffs when they stop playing generically and try to maintain best defensive matchups and its no surprise he had an absolutely wild on/off defensive impact compared to the rest of the starters against Philly this year (defense was 7 points better with OG on the court than without him, while every other starter - besides Khem - ranged from the defense being 4 points worse to 14 points worse when they were on the court). Whole thing just falls apart without him especially against the opponents where his defense matters the most."

I understand he's a bench player so the comparison isn't fair. I'll look into the on-off some more.. how was Boucher in the playoffs?

[golden]

I understand he's a bench player so the comparison isn't fair. I'll look into the on-off some more.. how was Boucher in the playoffs?

Of rotation players, Boucher was our best ON/OFF net rating performer in the Sixers series... and it wasn't even close.

[planetmars]

Not able to get the on/off data.. but DanH was comparing OG to the other starters only.

Boucher had a defensive rating of 112.7 and a net rating of -0.2. OG's defensive rating was 115.3 and his net rating was -8.3 in the small 6 game sample.

From the numbers, Boucher looked to be the better defender in that series. But he went up against bench players and played less so maybe not. Again hard to compare.

[planetmars]

Of rotation players, Boucher was our best ON/OFF net rating performer in the Sixers series... and it wasn't even close.

Yeah thanks! I was looking on cleaningtheglass.. since when do they require a subscription?

But, Boucher was also good in the regular season.

[Primer]

Boucher is a good defender, but he's not on OG's level.