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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    You know it's a fake trade when it's not doable via the CBA. Clarke and Williams collectively make under $9M. OG makes $17.5. So the Grizzlies would have to add more. Then it becomes tough because the Raptors are already pretty full.. I mean we're going to have a camp battle for that 15th spot and only if we waive Svi.

    Assuming there was more to the trade.. I likely still wouldn't do it. I do like Clarke, and there is some potential in Williams but they are both just role players. Their pick is going to be in the low 20's. Nothing to drool over. I would have preferred #7 and Hart and we kiboshed that one.
    OG is a role player.

    I'd take Williams over Sharpe pretty easily, and we get an extra pick.

    It's probably not enough for OG but it's closer than that Portland package.

    Also making the trade work salary wise is not hard. Toss in Steven Adams and Birch and it's good to go.
    Last edited by Primer; Wed Aug 3, 2022, 12:29 PM.

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    • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post

      Not to digress to hockey… slippery slope.

      But it’s funny being a Flames fan and watching your two stars walk out the door simultaneously. … it’s easy to say, “nah, forget that” to potential deals… but look what happened with Johnny Gaudreau. Thank god they were able to swing what looks to be a potentially incredible deal with Tkachuk for Huberdeau+, but that was a crazy rare thing that nobody saw coming.

      you can hope for a magical return like that — but the real danger is to have that asset, be it Johnny, or OG, walk right out the door, for *nothing*…

      I don’t think Zaire sucks at all. I think he could be very good. And Brandon Clarke brings a very specific skill set and crazy hustle. And yeah, it’d be a low first.

      Are they as good as OG? not currently. Do they project to be? …. No, I wouldn’t say so. …. Would it be completely and totally ideal? No. But if management is under the impression they can’t keep OG… that could certainly be a significantly better haul than getting nothing…

      Now I’d like to believe we could do much much better (see KD or Donovan) … but I trust our management to have their wits about them for all possible outcomes and do what’s best for the franchise. (I just hope this isn’t nonsense that continues to get built up in such a way that it gives the appearance of discord to the point where it creates that discord when it wasn’t there in the first place.)

      (((Cause I love OG as a Raptor.)))
      Is OG really better than Brandon Clarke? Impact stats heavily favor Clarke.

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      • LJ2 wrote: View Post
        The one thing I'm not interested in with any trade proposals is getting younger, or maybe more specifically having to wait on players developing. We already have Precious and Scottie that we are waiting on, but a player like Zaire might take much longer.

        We need to capitalize on as many prime Pascal and Freddy years as possible.
        This is a fair take but it's also the one that potentially leads to OG leaving for nothing in return.

        You have to look ahead, and if you don't think we're a title contender this season with OG it makes sense to get maximum value for him while he's under contract for 2 seasons.

        Williams was looking pretty damn good to end the season, I think he'll be a key contributor this season for the Grizzlies. He's same age and draft class as Scottie, so if we're really thinking long term he's a much better fit and a much cheaper one too.

        I think it's prudent to wait for the trade deadline and see how things look then. OG will still have the same value (assuming he's healthy) and possibly more if his play improves or his suitors are more desperate. We could also be dominating and have no intention of moving anyone.

        Making a trade like that right now doesn't seem the best idea, but I still think it's fun to discuss the value prop and what we do and don't like about the offer.

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        • Primer wrote: View Post

          This is a fair take but it's also the one that potentially leads to OG leaving for nothing in return.

          You have to look ahead, and if you don't think we're a title contender this season with OG it makes sense to get maximum value for him while he's under contract for 2 seasons.

          Williams was looking pretty damn good to end the season, I think he'll be a key contributor this season for the Grizzlies. He's same age and draft class as Scottie, so if we're really thinking long term he's a much better fit and a much cheaper one too.

          I think it's prudent to wait for the trade deadline and see how things look then. OG will still have the same value (assuming he's healthy) and possibly more if his play improves or his suitors are more desperate. We could also be dominating and have no intention of moving anyone.

          Making a trade like that right now doesn't seem the best idea, but I still think it's fun to discuss the value prop and what we do and don't like about the offer.
          I'd be open to trading OG if we know he wants out, but the first option should be to try and retain him.

          While I'm not big on a first or even second year player, I'm more focused on how ready they are to contribute at a high level. There are players like Anfernee Simmons that are young, but have a few years of experience and are starting to show potential. If we can get Shaedon Sharpe as well and someone like Ingles to make the salaries work then I'd be for it. Portland has a pretty good history of drafting well in the top 10 so I'm high on Sharpe turning into a good player. I know that should go without saying because top 10 players are supposed to be good, but there have been plenty of flops as well.

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          • Primer wrote: View Post

            OG is a role player.

            I'd take Williams over Sharpe pretty easily, and we get an extra pick.

            It's probably not enough for OG but it's closer than that Portland package.

            Also making the trade work salary wise is not hard. Toss in Steven Adams and Birch and it's good to go.
            OG is a role player but he's also a legit starter that can play more than 40mpg. Clarke and Williams average about 20mpg and are destined for that even in the future.

            The #7 and Hart package doesn't immediately mean they take Sharpe at 7. Why are you making that assumption? Tolzman and Masai would be making the pick, and I trust them completely with the draft. There is likely at least 1 or 2 guys better than Williams at the 7 spot. I wouldn't even be surprised if Koloko ended up better and he was taken in the 2nd round. Hart is better than both Clarke and Williams. His issue is he's a UFA at the end of the year so he could walk or have to get extended. That's the risk with him. Plus that alone isn't enough to make that trade work. Portland would have to throw in another contract like Little.

            If the plan is to get pretty much anything for OG because he's going to leave at the end of next season, then this deal is fair. But that's the type of deal you can make next year or even via a S&T. It's far rarer these days to see teams actually have cap space. I wouldn't be too worried yet that he'd leave for nothing.

            As for Adams vs Birch.. I think the Grizzlies say no there. Adams is important to them. He and Ja are pretty close. JJJ is not 100% reliable (due to injury), and they don't have another reliable option at C if they trade Adams. Birch as we know is not that great.

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              I'd be open to trading OG if we know he wants out, but the first option should be to try and retain him.

              While I'm not big on a first or even second year player, I'm more focused on how ready they are to contribute at a high level. There are players like Anfernee Simmons that are young, but have a few years of experience and are starting to show potential. If we can get Shaedon Sharpe as well and someone like Ingles to make the salaries work then I'd be for it. Portland has a pretty good history of drafting well in the top 10 so I'm high on Sharpe turning into a good player. I know that should go without saying because top 10 players are supposed to be good, but there have been plenty of flops as well.
              If Portland was offering Simons in that deal too I think we would have taken it. He was never rumored to be in the deal though. He's very good and I agree a better prospect than Williams.

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                OG is a role player but he's also a legit starter that can play more than 40mpg. Clarke and Williams average about 20mpg and are destined for that even in the future.

                The #7 and Hart package doesn't immediately mean they take Sharpe at 7. Why are you making that assumption? Tolzman and Masai would be making the pick, and I trust them completely with the draft. There is likely at least 1 or 2 guys better than Williams at the 7 spot. I wouldn't even be surprised if Koloko ended up better and he was taken in the 2nd round. Hart is better than both Clarke and Williams. His issue is he's a UFA at the end of the year so he could walk or have to get extended. That's the risk with him. Plus that alone isn't enough to make that trade work. Portland would have to throw in another contract like Little.

                If the plan is to get pretty much anything for OG because he's going to leave at the end of next season, then this deal is fair. But that's the type of deal you can make next year or even via a S&T. It's far rarer these days to see teams actually have cap space. I wouldn't be too worried yet that he'd leave for nothing.

                As for Adams vs Birch.. I think the Grizzlies say no there. Adams is important to them. He and Ja are pretty close. JJJ is not 100% reliable (due to injury), and they don't have another reliable option at C if they trade Adams. Birch as we know is not that great.
                Our big disconnect here is the value of Williams. To me he's a future 40mpg starter just like OG. Not someone destined for 20mpg, which he already surpassed in his rookie season by the way.

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                • no idea what brhoops is but the way i read that tweet is that they think the framework would be one of williams or clarke, plus a first round pick (plus appropriate salary filler obviously). which i don't think is enough. may as well have gone for the portland deal of 7 plus josh hart if that was available.

                  it does seem like maybe there's some smoke here between all the trade rumours and nurse's acknowledgment of OG wanting a bigger role, as well as salary considerations. someone can correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think we'll be able to retain both OG and GTJ without going pretty far into the tax (assuming we'll keep fred and pascal). maybe the team feels that OG has the higher trade value and they can move him for better prospects that will contribute cheaply than they could get for GTJ, if they have to make the choice between on one of the two of them.

                  i love OG and wouldn't want to trade him but i can see the logic

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                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                    I'd be open to trading OG if we know he wants out, but the first option should be to try and retain him.

                    While I'm not big on a first or even second year player, I'm more focused on how ready they are to contribute at a high level. There are players like Anfernee Simmons that are young, but have a few years of experience and are starting to show potential. If we can get Shaedon Sharpe as well and someone like Ingles to make the salaries work then I'd be for it. Portland has a pretty good history of drafting well in the top 10 so I'm high on Sharpe turning into a good player. I know that should go without saying because top 10 players are supposed to be good, but there have been plenty of flops as well.
                    Why are you so interested in Sharpe? Beyond the history. He is a complete unknown at best.

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post

                      Our big disconnect here is the value of Williams. To me he's a future 40mpg starter just like OG. Not someone destined for 20mpg, which he already surpassed in his rookie season by the way.
                      There is something about Clarke.. he is good

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