Everything OG Anunoby

[Primer]

You're kidding me.
KD specifically requested Phoenix.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...759304704?s=20

Elite players are treated differently.
Even Lowry chose the team he wanted to go to, right?

Phoenix gave up a haul for KD, more than any other team was offering. That's why he's on Phoenix. Didn't matter if KD wanted to go there or not. That's how trades work, the team trading takes the best deal they can get.

Lowry wasn't under contract and Miami could have signed him straight up in free agency. Do you see how that's a different situation?

Did Gobert request Minnesota? Did Mitchell request Cleveland? Did Irving request Dallas?

Or did they get traded to the teams offering the most?

[Kagemusha]

Suns were at the top of KD's list, but Suns were never sure about trading for him until the owner stepped in. If i recall, Suns were planning to trade for John Collins first.

Exactly.
They give the FO a list of their prefered team.

[Kagemusha]

Phoenix gave up a haul for KD, more than any other team was offering. That's why he's on Phoenix. Didn't matter if KD wanted to go there or not. That's how trades work, the team trading takes the best deal they can get.

Lowry wasn't under contract and Miami could have signed him straight up in free agency. Do you see how that's a different situation?

Did Gobert request Minnesota? Did Mitchell request Cleveland? Did Irving request Dallas?

Or did they get traded to the teams offering the most?

Gobert and Mitchell are NOT elite players.
Kyrie is elite, but his situation at that point was almost similar with Kawhi.

Lowry still made it known to the Raptors that he preferred Miami. I don't see how that's a different situation.

Based on reports, Masai's offer for KD was even better than that of Phoenix.

How it works is
1. Elite player gives FO his preferred teams
2. FO contacts those teams and they give their offers
3. The team with the best offer wins

[G____Deane]

That is another thing.
At that time Mitchell didn't seem to be a Raptor type, coz he is not a two way player.
Even if a good player becomes available, if he doesn't fit Masai's mold, then we are handcuffing ourselves even more.

Mitchell was expensive but I'd take him in a heatbeat.
Defense only doesn't win Chips and that move resulted in CLEVELAND being a better team than the Raps for now and the foreseeable future. Even without the picks they gave up, the have a young exciting team.

[chris]

with regards to the direction of the franchise and positioning ourselves to trade for a star, in general i think i'd say i'd prefer being on the side that is trading the star than the side that is acquiring one.

we still need to see how things shake out with recent star acquisitions but the price for a star is today seems really high to me even compared to just a few years ago, and usually includes draft capital for the better part of a decade in addition to other assets. i think that sets your franchise up better in the long term and i liked all of the harden, gobert, murray and durant trades best for the teams that traded their stars (the mitchell trade i think was pretty win-win for both teams). the teams that acquired those stars now have limited flexibility and might be stuck with their teams for quite some time, so better win big in the short term. phoenix looks like the only one positioned to do so though and that depends entirely on the health of two pretty old guys with a long history of health problems.

sure, eventually you need to acquire a star if you plan on competing but the assets you get in trading one who isn't currently carrying your franchise to contention set you up better to acquire the next one and better flexibility to add support around him, in my opinion.

that's part of why i'd be looking to move on from pascal and build around scottie, in addition to the fit issues and thinking it's best for scottie's development.

[chris]

Mitchell was expensive but I'd take him in a heatbeat.
Defense only doesn't win Chips and that move resulted in CLEVELAND being a better team than the Raps for now and the foreseeable future. Even without the picks they gave up, the have a young exciting team.

i had a lengthy back and forth with golden about mitchell some time ago where i thought you couldn't "at a high level" (meaning a finals run) with mitchell due to how exposed he would get defensively in the playoffs.

i take that back... i think you might be able to win at a high level with mitchell, but i think cleveland was probably the only team that could have made that work. turns out all it takes is having two of the five best rim protectors in the league who are also extremely mobile out on the perimeter, so that if one of them gets dragged out there by an opposing big that can shoot, there is still another to protect the paint when mitchell gets blown by possession after possession.

i still wouldn't want to build our team around him and trade a fuck-ton of assets to do so. no thank you

[Primer]

Gobert and Mitchell are NOT elite players.
Kyrie is elite, but his situation at that point was almost similar with Kawhi.

Lowry still made it known to the Raptors that he preferred Miami. I don't see how that's a different situation.

Based on reports, Masai's offer for KD was even better than that of Phoenix.

How it works is
1. Elite player gives FO his preferred teams
2. FO contacts those teams and they give their offers
3. The team with the best offer wins

KD is under contract for multiple years. Lowry was not under contract at all. You don't see the difference there?
If a guy is under contract he has no leverage and has to go wherever they trade him.
If a guy isn't under contract, he can go wherever he wants, and doesn't even need to be traded to do so, he's a FREE AGENT.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

What reported offer of Masai was better than what Phoenix gave them?
The reports I read were Brooklyn wanted Scottie and we wouldn't budge.

You can slide goal posts all around however you want to define elite player. Fact is guys get traded to whoever offers the most, and their opinion doesn't matter. This is especially the case with KD because he's under contract through the 2025-26 season, so the team trading for him didn't even need to worry about resigning him anytime soon.

[Primer]

i had a lengthy back and forth with golden about mitchell some time ago where i thought you couldn't "at a high level" (meaning a finals run) with mitchell due to how exposed he would get defensively in the playoffs.

i take that back... i think you might be able to win at a high level with mitchell, but i think cleveland was probably the only team that could have made that work. turns out all it takes is having two of the five best rim protectors in the league who are also extremely mobile out on the perimeter, so that if one of them gets dragged out there by an opposing big that can shoot, there is still another to protect the paint when mitchell gets blown by possession after possession.

i still wouldn't want to build our team around him and trade a fuck-ton of assets to do so. no thank you

Lets wait until after the playoffs to decide if the Mitchell trade was worth it for Cleveland. They gave up a ton to be the 4th best team in the East. If they can't get past round 2 it doesn't seem worth it to me.

[golden]

Lets wait until after the playoffs to decide if the Mitchell trade was worth it for Cleveland. They gave up a ton to be the 4th best team in the East. If they can't get past round 2 it doesn't seem worth it to me.

Cavs core is really young, so they’ve got a few years to get over the hump. What they’re missing is a big, switchable 3&D wing defender, like an OG or even a Jae Crowder.

[chris]

Lets wait until after the playoffs to decide if the Mitchell trade was worth it for Cleveland. They gave up a ton to be the 4th best team in the East. If they can't get past round 2 it doesn't seem worth it to me.

yeah i'm not saying it's a slam dunk of a trade for them or anything, just that they're in a unique position to make incorporating a one-way player like mitchell work compared to other teams, and that i can see a roadmap to their success (or what i was defining winning "at a high level" in that conversation with golden a year or so ago).

whether they get there or not will depend largely on mobley's and garland's development i think and whether they can upgrade that okoro/levert spot, as golden pointed out

[G____Deane]

Cleveland was an example of a team that knew there was value in getting better vs just sitting around and being mediocre and waiting for some far off star to land in their laps that no one else made a killer offer for. That's not a plan, it's just dreaming.

I really think a significant FA would rather sign in Cleveland now with what they have to offer, over Toronto. And that's super painful to say.

I'm starting to understand that for the majority of NBA teams, talk of Chips and "play-ins for what" is just salesman marketing talk. Sure they want to win but the real goal is to maximize net revenue by being relevent, getting a few home playoff games and selling the dream. Chips where the elite guys don't want to land are just pipe dreams to sell to the ticket buying rubes.

[chris]

Cleveland was an example of a team that knew there was value in getting better vs just sitting around and being mediocre and waiting for some far off star to land in their laps that no one else made a killer offer for. That's not a plan, it's just dreaming.

I really think a significant FA would rather sign in Cleveland now with what they have to offer, over Toronto. And that's super painful to say.

I'm starting to understand that for the majority of NBA teams, talk of Chips and "play-ins for what" is just salesman marketing talk. Sure they want to win but the real goal is to maximize net revenue by being relevent, getting a few home playoff games and selling the dream. Chips where the elite guys don't want to land are just pipe dreams to sell to the ticket buying rubes.

we had guaranteed relevance for many years and the front office bet it all to win a chip knowing that the window was likely only one year, so while your criticism is probably valid "for the majority of NBA teams" it's not at all emblematic of our management's mindset.

[G____Deane]

we had guaranteed relevance for many years and the front office bet it all to win a chip knowing that the window was likely only one year, so while your criticism is probably valid "for the majority of NBA teams" it's not at all emblematic of our management's mindset.

That's why I said it's not a plan just because the "once in 30 years" happened.
If we traded Pascal (our modern DeMar) for a Kawhi win-now player, we don't have the Pascal to play alongside him. Or the Lowry.
It's a fool's plan.

Why would VERY likely happen is the chance they took before; bounce in the conference final or even the final and the FA walks just as fast as he can to Cali. Then we're fooked even worse.

[golden]

That's why I said it's not a plan just because the "once in 30 years" happened.
If we traded Pascal (our modern DeMar) for a Kawhi win-now player, we don't have the Pascal to play alongside him. Or the Lowry.
It's a fool's plan.

Why would VERY likely happen is the chance they took before; bounce in the conference final or even the final and the FA walks just as fast as he can to Cali. Then we're fooked even worse.

Generational players who win you championships are almost never available.

So if you’re super impatient and want management to make moves every year or so, then the likely result is shuffling deck chairs or getting worse.

[Primer]

That's why I said it's not a plan just because the "once in 30 years" happened.
If we traded Pascal (our modern DeMar) for a Kawhi win-now player, we don't have the Pascal to play alongside him. Or the Lowry.
It's a fool's plan.

Why would VERY likely happen is the chance they took before; bounce in the conference final or even the final and the FA walks just as fast as he can to Cali. Then we're fooked even worse.

Yeah we do, his name is Scottie.

We made the Kawhi trade between Pascals 3rd and 4th season.
His 3rd season he averaged 16.9pts. Scottie currently averages 15.5pts.

Scottie could be the number 2 to a Kawhi type if we needed to trade Pascal to get that player.