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The OPTIMISTIC Everything 2017 Offseason Thread

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  • Can't envision them starting Poeltl over JV. He has even less of a floor spacing impact than JV does, and as much as his quick feet help him, he'll be in foul trouble 2 minutes into the game the way he gets called out there (which makes the refs look like JV's best friends by comparison, no small feat).

    If JV sits, I can only imagine it is a stylistic choice and they start Ibaka at C, meaning either Siakam starting again, or going super small out the gate with Powell and Miles playing the F spots. I'd think this a terrible idea. But it's the only alternative to starting JV that makes any sense at all to me.

    The most obvious rotation is this, IMO:

    Lowry-Wright
    DeRozan-Lowry
    Powell-Miles
    Ibaka-Siakam-Miles
    JV-Poeltl-Ibaka

    Ibaka gets minutes at C at the end of the game if the team goes small, same for Miles at the 4. Otherwise, never, unless guys are in foul trouble or there's an extreme matchup issue.

    Bench units will be Wright-Miles-Siakam-Poeltl with a star player (KL or DD) at all times.

    There would obviously be some mixed starters/bench transitional lineups as well. For example, JV should probably start the 4th with the bench if Ibaka is going to close every game.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      i'd like to see JV dumped somewhere.
      We know. You've said it every day. Unfortunately for you, the Raptors don't seem too interested in "dumping" JV like he's yesterdays trash.
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        Can't envision them starting Poeltl over JV. He has even less of a floor spacing impact than JV does, and as much as his quick feet help him, he'll be in foul trouble 2 minutes into the game the way he gets called out there (which makes the refs look like JV's best friends by comparison, no small feat).

        If JV sits, I can only imagine it is a stylistic choice and they start Ibaka at C, meaning either Siakam starting again, or going super small out the gate with Powell and Miles playing the F spots. I'd think this a terrible idea. But it's the only alternative to starting JV that makes any sense at all to me.

        The most obvious rotation is this, IMO:

        Lowry-Wright
        DeRozan-Lowry
        Powell-Miles
        Ibaka-Siakam-Miles
        JV-Poeltl-Ibaka

        Ibaka gets minutes at C at the end of the game if the team goes small, same for Miles at the 4. Otherwise, never, unless guys are in foul trouble or there's an extreme matchup issue.

        Bench units will be Wright-Miles-Siakam-Poeltl with a star player (KL or DD) at all times.

        There would obviously be some mixed starters/bench transitional lineups as well. For example, JV should probably start the 4th with the bench if Ibaka is going to close every game.
        I guess we will find out who trots to start and who comes in at the 8 or 9 minute mark in 100 days barring a trade or another material signing.

        I think JV doesn't start because the road to redemption starts for him on the bench. When your up, you show your team mates, the coaching staff and your GM your worth keeping because right now the determination is that JV is not worth keeping as he is on the trade block. Have to change the mindset of everyone that your off the trade block. You do that with your on court performance. That will get him the starting role back. The trump card the coach controls is minutes. JV has to show he is worth those starting minutes.

        Poelt recieved some pretty marginal calls on him as a rookie last year. Not unusual but a year later he will likely cut down the dumb ones he took and maybe get the benefit of the doubt on some referee respect only calls. Jacob is much quicker up and down the floor than JV is and has better hands. He is your 9th pick. The boss (Ujirri) end of year message is that things are going to change next year on how the Raps play. I don't think he is kidding. This is a reasonable change up front.

        I agree the closing unit will be small... likely serge. dd. kyle, norm/miles and perhaps siakam.
        Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Jul 10, 2017, 05:54 PM.
        And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Can't envision them starting Poeltl over JV. He has even less of a floor spacing impact than JV does, and as much as his quick feet help him, he'll be in foul trouble 2 minutes into the game the way he gets called out there (which makes the refs look like JV's best friends by comparison, no small feat).

          If JV sits, I can only imagine it is a stylistic choice and they start Ibaka at C, meaning either Siakam starting again, or going super small out the gate with Powell and Miles playing the F spots. I'd think this a terrible idea. But it's the only alternative to starting JV that makes any sense at all to me.

          The most obvious rotation is this, IMO:

          Lowry-Wright
          DeRozan-Lowry
          Powell-Miles
          Ibaka-Siakam-Miles
          JV-Poeltl-Ibaka

          Ibaka gets minutes at C at the end of the game if the team goes small, same for Miles at the 4. Otherwise, never, unless guys are in foul trouble or there's an extreme matchup issue.

          Bench units will be Wright-Miles-Siakam-Poeltl with a star player (KL or DD) at all times.

          There would obviously be some mixed starters/bench transitional lineups as well. For example, JV should probably start the 4th with the bench if Ibaka is going to close every game.
          You really think Miles can play the 4? lol. Has he ever even played the 4 in his life? I think pascal is our only option as small ball 4. maybe OG if he proves he can handle them defensively
          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

          Comment


          • DanH wrote: View Post
            Can't envision them starting Poeltl over JV. He has even less of a floor spacing impact than JV does, and as much as his quick feet help him, he'll be in foul trouble 2 minutes into the game the way he gets called out there (which makes the refs look like JV's best friends by comparison, no small feat).

            If JV sits, I can only imagine it is a stylistic choice and they start Ibaka at C, meaning either Siakam starting again, or going super small out the gate with Powell and Miles playing the F spots. I'd think this a terrible idea. But it's the only alternative to starting JV that makes any sense at all to me.

            The most obvious rotation is this, IMO:

            Lowry-Wright
            DeRozan-Lowry
            Powell-Miles
            Ibaka-Siakam-Miles
            JV-Poeltl-Ibaka

            Ibaka gets minutes at C at the end of the game if the team goes small, same for Miles at the 4. Otherwise, never, unless guys are in foul trouble or there's an extreme matchup issue.

            Bench units will be Wright-Miles-Siakam-Poeltl with a star player (KL or DD) at all times.

            There would obviously be some mixed starters/bench transitional lineups as well. For example, JV should probably start the 4th with the bench if Ibaka is going to close every game.
            I completely agree with the rest of the line up though if we make no more moves. Really wish we'd be able to start ibaka at the 5 but i dont trust pascal to start just yet
            I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

            Comment


            • Lowry/Wright/VanVleet
              DeRozan/Powell
              Miles/Anonuby/Caboclo
              Ibaka/Siakam
              Valanciunas/Poeltl/Nogueira

              Love this squad!! What's going to be our next move? Can we still sign a player that can be on the 12 men? Tony Allen would be amazing, as of Afflalo or Ilyasova! If not, the team is pretty cool as it is!
              Last edited by charlesnba23; Tue Jul 11, 2017, 01:14 AM.

              Comment


              • GLF wrote: View Post
                You really think Miles can play the 4? lol. Has he ever even played the 4 in his life? I think pascal is our only option as small ball 4. maybe OG if he proves he can handle them defensively
                From ESPN prior to this past season:

                Miles began the 2015-16 season as a starting forward with the Pacers' move to a small-ball style at the behest of Larry Bird and now-deposed coach Frank Vogel. While George complained about having to bang down low, in reality the task of guarding 4s usually fell to Miles. Miles averaged 15.9 points in November, but the new starting lineup played poorly. The Hill-Ellis-George-Miles-Mahinmi quintet had a minus-6.7 net rating in 333 minutes. Meanwhile, units with Lavoy Allen or Turner in Miles' stead at the 4 were some of the Pacers' best high-minute lineups. After the season, Miles noted that the banging down low took a toll, and he did miss 16 games because of injuries to his to his lower back, right ankle, left calf and right shoulder.


                Miles' game revolves around his versatile jump shot. But it is perhaps too versatile; he is prone to taking off-balance spot-ups coming off screens to his right as he kicks his left leg out for balance. Miles also rarely drives and goes left every time when he does. Passing is not a major part of his game either, with only 1.5 assists per 36 minutes in his Pacers career, but one advantage of never passing is never turning it over either.


                Because those units with him at power forward hemorrhaged points (at least by Pacers standards under Vogel), Miles' defensive RPM was 59th among small forwards. He isn't that bad in his normal role, with solid block and steal rates. He was 13th in defensive RPM the year before when he played exclusively on the wing.


                Miles worked in the gym over the summer with an eye toward playing more power forward as needed and also diversifying his offensive game because he has been mostly a 3-point specialist. And his spot-up shooting would be a good complement to Teague and George as creators. But the plan appears to be that Miles will continue to back up both wing positions instead.
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                Comment


                • Yeah, I'd only use Miles at the 4 in dedicated small ball units, ideally in short minute spurts rights at the end of games, or against very specific matchups. I have no interest in running guys out for big chunks of minutes a position down from their ideal. Can work against backups - like when Lowry plays the 2 with the bench.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • There are teams playing four guards at a time for stretches, so yes, there will be situations where Miles can play the 4 - he may even have a size advantage when he does it.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • I think JV should start but get subbed out 6 minutes into the first quarter. I'd like to see him subbed back in to start the 2nd quarter and play against opposing bench players. Could do very well and provide some scoring to the bench unit.
                      Maybe JV's future is to play the first 5-6 minutes of every quarter.

                      Comment


                      • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                        I think JV should start but get subbed out 6 minutes into the first quarter. I'd like to see him subbed back in to start the 2nd quarter and play against opposing bench players. Could do very well and provide some scoring to the bench unit.
                        Maybe JV's future is to play the first 5-6 minutes of every quarter.
                        I think that's probably the way they go with it. With maybe a few extra minutes at the end of the 2nd Q (I don't know that they will want to use their closing lineup early, gives teams a chance to adjust for the 4th Q). Would put him in his typical 26-28 minutes per game.

                        Like, the two bench units need some offensive pop. Last year, in limited samples, the DD+bench unit was very good with Poeltl and poor with Nogueira, while the Lowry group was the opposite. So I don't know that I'd run Poeltl out with that Lowry bench mob, and rather than running 4 different C's in the rotation, JV could take those minutes (he and Lowry have good PnR chemistry and his presence inside could open stuff up for Miles... question is if Siakam can shoot well enough to fit beside JV - and in Patterson's place in the bench unit in the first place - this year). Also helps get JV more minutes with a lesser defensive burden.

                        For the DeRozan group, Poeltl worked really well early last season, so you run him out after JV subs off, for a few minutes with Ibaka then Siakam taking over at about the 9 minute mark. Miles in with this group too, once Ibaka subs off, as they will need shooting. So that lines Miles up for 18 minutes a game, plus a few if he gets minutes at the 4 at the end of games against certain matchups. Seems about right.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • Go to the 2:12 mark of the clip to see why Jakob merits serious consideration to start this year.


                          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQEQ8PKT6pk
                          Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:08 AM.
                          And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                          • Honestly doesn't it make more sense to start Poeltl and bring JV off the bench? Reminds me of the Adams/Kanter situation. Poeltl is probably going to be better defensively and worse offensively. Bring JV off the bench, let him be the 2nd option when he's on instead of 3rd, playing with just one of Kyle/DeMar instead of both.

                            We don't need JV's scoring in the starting unit with Lowry/DeMar/Ibaka. Depending on how the game goes he could finish the game or someone else could.

                            Could see him performing like a 6th man of the year in this role and the non-Lowry bench units looking better offensively.

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                            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                              Honestly doesn't it make more sense to start Poeltl and bring JV off the bench? Reminds me of the Adams/Kanter situation. Poeltl is probably going to be better defensively and worse offensively. Bring JV off the bench, let him be the 2nd option when he's on instead of 3rd, playing with just one of Kyle/DeMar instead of both.
                              I suppose, if you think Poeltl can survive starting. I don't. He'd be in foul trouble by minute 3 every game trying to guard starting C's and help on the top stars. Better to line him up against lesser competition when possible.

                              And my rotation has JV playing half his minutes with bench units already.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                I suppose, if you think Poeltl can survive starting. I don't. He'd be in foul trouble by minute 3 every game trying to guard starting C's and help on the top stars. Better to line him up against lesser competition when possible.

                                And my rotation has JV playing half his minutes with bench units already.
                                I disagree. We spent a pick that high on him for a reason. He's better at recycling and passing the ball than Jonas, can set good screens and I think he will also be much better defensively. He's a better fit with the rest of the starters.

                                I'd like to avoid having DeMar/Kyle/JV all on the floor at the same time as much as possible.

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