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The OPTIMISTIC Everything 2017 Offseason Thread

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  • #91
    We're not under the tax though, are we?

    Comment


    • #92
      yep...or its spitting distance close.

      trading carroll and adding hamilton took them to or just under 119....

      Joseph was making 7.8 and miles will get 8.3....500k dif

      we are guessing...but bobby webster and ujiri arent...so they are pretty likely under the tax
      And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

      Comment


      • #93
        Nice! Probably just a couple veteran mins to come then. Those are tax free, correct?

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        • #94
          SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
          We're not under the tax though, are we?
          Basically it comes down now to whether players hit their incentives or not, and the accuracy with which they have been reported. We're close enough that we could just hope and pray and might miss the tax. I wouldn't expect the team to make such a bet though.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #95
            SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
            Nice! Probably just a couple veteran mins to come then. Those are tax free, correct?
            Nope. All salaries count towards the tax, with some very rare exceptions.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #96
              DanH wrote: View Post
              Nope. All salaries count towards the tax, with some very rare exceptions.
              So how can we add more players while making sure we don't hit the tax?
              The name's Bond, James Bond.

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              • #97
                007 wrote: View Post
                So how can we add more players while making sure we don't hit the tax?
                Doubt they can avoid the tax easily at this point. Maybe finding a landing place for BeBe and signing two minimum deals would do it, depending on how accurate the salary reports have been. They can land below the tax if they get lucky with incentives, though that would in theory mean players like DD and Lowry playing worse...
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • #98
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  I say the optimistic version of a realistic scenario would be: we trade Cory and BeBe for no salary back, get a high second rounder out of it. And waive and stretch Hamilton. That clears $12.5 M in salary, putting the team 16M below the apron. Meaning they can sign a full MLE (Miles), BAE (some vet shooter) and a minimum salary guy and still have wiggle room for any moves later on.
                  i think this is funny.

                  1. because its supposed to be optimistic

                  2. because we got cj miles for joseph like 2 hours after it was posted.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    c-troop wrote: View Post
                    i think this is funny.

                    1. because its supposed to be optimistic

                    2. because we got cj miles for joseph like 2 hours after it was posted.
                    And waived and stretched Hamilton!

                    Off-season is going very well!
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      And waived and stretched Hamilton!

                      Off-season is going very well!
                      hahaha yeah man, he's like a 2nd rounder

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                      • 007 wrote: View Post
                        So how can we add more players while making sure we don't hit the tax?
                        Right now, not counting Alfonzo McKinnie's $815K deal since it's non-guaranteed and if we don't sign him for the season we'll end up paying him about 50K for training camp:

                        Kyle 28,703,704
                        DeMar 27,739,975
                        Serge 20,061,728
                        Jonas 15,460,674
                        CJ (est.) 8,333,333
                        Bebe 2,947,305
                        Poeltl 2,825,640
                        Bruno 2,451,225
                        OG 1,645,200
                        Delon 1,645,200
                        Norm 1,471,382
                        FVV 1,312,611
                        Pascal 1,249,920

                        Hamilton (stretch) 1,500,000

                        Total salary in 2017-18 so far: $117,347,897

                        The luxury tax threshold is $119,266,000, which leaves us with $1,918,103 for the remaining two slots, assuming players don't hit incentives.

                        Just for the sake of argument, here are the minimum salaries that some free agents discussed by people here could sign with us for:

                        Thabo Sefalosha, Gerald Green, Aaron Afflalo: 2,328,652
                        Luc Mbah a Moute: 2,116,955
                        Jonas Jerebko: 1,974,159
                        Derrick Williams: 1,841,849
                        Shabazz Muhammad: 1,577,230
                        KJ McDaniels, Thomas Robinson: 1,524,305

                        Basically, in order to avoid tax entirely while still carrying 15 players, it would at minimum involve trading probably Bebe.

                        Another possibility: trading Jonas in order to try to snag JaMychal Green.

                        Comment


                        • i'd like to see JV dumped somewhere. Steal Tony Allen and Green from Memphis. I really like how they would fit our culture.
                          @Chr1st1anL

                          Comment


                          • magoon wrote: View Post
                            Right now, not counting Alfonzo McKinnie's $815K deal since it's non-guaranteed and if we don't sign him for the season we'll end up paying him about 50K for training camp:

                            Kyle 28,703,704
                            DeMar 27,739,975
                            Serge 20,061,728
                            Jonas 15,460,674
                            CJ (est.) 8,333,333
                            Bebe 2,947,305
                            Poeltl 2,825,640
                            Bruno 2,451,225
                            OG 1,645,200
                            Delon 1,645,200
                            Norm 1,471,382
                            FVV 1,312,611
                            Pascal 1,249,920

                            Hamilton (stretch) 1,500,000

                            Total salary in 2017-18 so far: $117,347,897

                            The luxury tax threshold is $119,266,000, which leaves us with $1,918,103 for the remaining two slots, assuming players don't hit incentives.

                            Just for the sake of argument, here are the minimum salaries that some free agents discussed by people here could sign with us for:

                            Thabo Sefalosha, Gerald Green, Aaron Afflalo: 2,328,652
                            Luc Mbah a Moute: 2,116,955
                            Jonas Jerebko: 1,974,159
                            Derrick Williams: 1,841,849
                            Shabazz Muhammad: 1,577,230
                            KJ McDaniels, Thomas Robinson: 1,524,305

                            Basically, in order to avoid tax entirely while still carrying 15 players, it would at minimum involve trading probably Bebe.

                            Another possibility: trading Jonas in order to try to snag JaMychal Green.
                            Nice digging on who is still out there...and what is left in the wallet this year ...
                            Common practice is top up the rookie scale deal by 20%...so if it isn't in the calc..that would adds ~ 325k

                            Looks like this how it lines up now...13 contracts.

                            Lowry, Wright, VanVleet
                            DeRozan, Powell
                            Miles, Anunoby, Caboclo, (McKinnie has an ungauranteed deal for ~800K)
                            Ibaka, Siakam
                            Valanciunas, Poeltl, Bebe

                            Could use some help with a bigger veteran SF..who could play some PF or vice versa....
                            FWIW I think JV stays until
                            A)the trade market for C improves,
                            B)he plays his way off the trade block or
                            C)god forbid he regresses and plays his way to DNP -CD when he moves for another teams bad deal.


                            One of sefalosha, MBah a moute or Jerebco could fit....
                            And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

                            Comment


                            • magoon wrote: View Post
                              Right now, not counting Alfonzo McKinnie's $815K deal since it's non-guaranteed and if we don't sign him for the season we'll end up paying him about 50K for training camp:

                              Kyle 28,703,704
                              DeMar 27,739,975
                              Serge 20,061,728
                              Jonas 15,460,674
                              CJ (est.) 8,333,333
                              Bebe 2,947,305
                              Poeltl 2,825,640
                              Bruno 2,451,225
                              OG 1,645,200
                              Delon 1,645,200
                              Norm 1,471,382
                              FVV 1,312,611
                              Pascal 1,249,920

                              Hamilton (stretch) 1,500,000

                              Total salary in 2017-18 so far: $117,347,897

                              The luxury tax threshold is $119,266,000, which leaves us with $1,918,103 for the remaining two slots, assuming players don't hit incentives.

                              Just for the sake of argument, here are the minimum salaries that some free agents discussed by people here could sign with us for:

                              Thabo Sefalosha, Gerald Green, Aaron Afflalo: 2,328,652
                              Luc Mbah a Moute: 2,116,955
                              Jonas Jerebko: 1,974,159
                              Derrick Williams: 1,841,849
                              Shabazz Muhammad: 1,577,230
                              KJ McDaniels, Thomas Robinson: 1,524,305

                              Basically, in order to avoid tax entirely while still carrying 15 players, it would at minimum involve trading probably Bebe.

                              Another possibility: trading Jonas in order to try to snag JaMychal Green.
                              You've got a bunch of stuff missing here that tweaks that tax situation a bit, though sadly we start to wade into murky waters in terms of salary reporting with bonuses.

                              First off: all minimum salaries count as 2-year veteran minimum salaries for tax purposes. So all those guys would earn just under 1.5M.

                              If we assume the bonuses are all missed entirely, then your Lowry salary is fine. But it should be noted early on that if a team is depending on players not earning bonuses to dodge the tax, they are actively rooting against those players finding success. Not a good place to be - and betting against a guy like Lowry doesn't seem smart either. Heck, the bonuses could be anything from games played to assists per game to All-NBA selection, any of which are very possible in terms of achievement. Lowry would only have signed the contract with incentives if he thought they were achievable to some degree.

                              In any case, leaving aside the bonuses, you still have to a) increase Pascal and Van Vleet's salaries to the 2-year vet minimum for tax purposes; b) decrease Miles' salary to presumably his starting salary of $7,936,508, and c) decrease Hamilton's cap hit to 1M per year. Then you add a 14th man to meet the minimum roster requirements, earning that $1.5M minimum salary.

                              That comes out to: $118.4M. Just about $800k clear of the tax. But again, without any bonuses.

                              It leaves DeRozan's reported but never confirmed 1.5M in bonuses unearned (these may not even exist, he had a salary range initially reported, suggesting incentives, but we never got confirmation of them). But even leaving his aside, Lowry will have $2.22 million in incentives.

                              The other tricky part is how hard it is to shed salary at this point with smaller deals, like Nogueira's. He earns 2.9M, so trading him for nothing and replacing him with a minimum salary would clear only 1.4M. That might be enough to make the difference - adding that 1.4M in buffer would mean staying below the tax by 200k if Lowry meets his incentives (and DeRozan's either don't exist or he doesn't meet them).

                              Unfortunately, bonuses are not well reported on in the NBA, so we will always be dealing somewhat in murk when talking tax and hard cap.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                You've got a bunch of stuff missing here that tweaks that tax situation a bit, though sadly we start to wade into murky waters in terms of salary reporting with bonuses.

                                First off: all minimum salaries count as 2-year veteran minimum salaries for tax purposes. So all those guys would earn just under 1.5M.

                                If we assume the bonuses are all missed entirely, then your Lowry salary is fine. But it should be noted early on that if a team is depending on players not earning bonuses to dodge the tax, they are actively rooting against those players finding success. Not a good place to be - and betting against a guy like Lowry doesn't seem smart either. Heck, the bonuses could be anything from games played to assists per game to All-NBA selection, any of which are very possible in terms of achievement. Lowry would only have signed the contract with incentives if he thought they were achievable to some degree.

                                In any case, leaving aside the bonuses, you still have to a) increase Pascal and Van Vleet's salaries to the 2-year vet minimum for tax purposes; b) decrease Miles' salary to presumably his starting salary of $7,936,508, and c) decrease Hamilton's cap hit to 1M per year. Then you add a 14th man to meet the minimum roster requirements, earning that $1.5M minimum salary.

                                That comes out to: $118.4M. Just about $800k clear of the tax. But again, without any bonuses.

                                It leaves DeRozan's reported but never confirmed 1.5M in bonuses unearned (these may not even exist, he had a salary range initially reported, suggesting incentives, but we never got confirmation of them). But even leaving his aside, Lowry will have $2.22 million in incentives.

                                The other tricky part is how hard it is to shed salary at this point with smaller deals, like Nogueira's. He earns 2.9M, so trading him for nothing and replacing him with a minimum salary would clear only 1.4M. That might be enough to make the difference - adding that 1.4M in buffer would mean staying below the tax by 200k if Lowry meets his incentives (and DeRozan's either don't exist or he doesn't meet them).

                                Unfortunately, bonuses are not well reported on in the NBA, so we will always be dealing somewhat in murk when talking tax and hard cap.
                                So net-net...they have a very competitive team again, are under the cap, and can stay there with little to no effort.
                                And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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