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Evolution of the Game. Trends and How It Relates to Raptors and How To Stay Ahead of the Curve

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  • Evolution of the Game. Trends and How It Relates to Raptors and How To Stay Ahead of the Curve

    So after reading a couple of articles I just wanted to start a thread about where do you see the game going. Can we predict how the game will change? Do we counter it (aka zig while everyone zags) or do we try to catch up and adjust?


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-positions-now

    http://www.isportsweb.com/2016/08/01...e-nba-defense/


    With an increased number of teams switching screens on defense it will be interesting to see if teams will go back to more traditional offensive lineups with two big guys to take advantage of mismatches or if coaches will stick to spreading the floor with as much shooting as possible.
    Could this mean having elite ISO and Post Up players will become a premium if everyone moves to switching defense?
    All man. All amazing.

  • #2
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    So after reading a couple of articles I just wanted to start a thread about where do you see the game going. Can we predict how the game will change? Do we counter it (aka zig while everyone zags) or do we try to catch up and adjust?




    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-positions-now





    http://www.isportsweb.com/2016/08/01...e-nba-defense/




    Could this mean having elite ISO and Post Up players will become a premium if everyone moves to switching defense?
    Those players are only at a premium if they show they can be successful playing both styles.

    Comment


    • #3
      One thing I know for sure is I'd rather not watch basketball games where each team is chucking up 40 threes. No matter what the analytics say I can't see the trend/curve going that extreme. Some other team will make a new trend/curve out of necessity/utilization of their resources.

      You might have been seeing the beginnings of that with how the Spurs defended the Rockets. Once you know the two spots a team wants their shots from, you engineer the defense against it. Of course a team like GS has so much unique, synergistic high-level talent I think it's not accurate to label it a trend. There's not much you can do to catch up to that.
      Last edited by Mess; Fri Jul 21st, 2017, 02:40 PM.
      Two beer away from being two beers away.

      Comment


      • #4
        golden wrote: View Post
        Those players are only at a premium if they show they can be successful playing both styles.
        Yeah defensively and offensively they need to be able to play both styles. Raptors have none of those players. But Masai is building something like this based on who he drafts.
        All man. All amazing.

        Comment


        • #5
          A good coach, with the right team, should always be able to find an effective way to exploit positive mismatches, while minimizing the impact of negative mismatches. It would be easy if you had a lineup of 5 LBJs, Scotty Pippens, or Anthony Davis, but that's highly improbable.

          Positionless basketball, or even reduced number of positions (per Stevens), is good in theory, but hard to implement effectively.

          You'll never defeat an opponent by trying to do the same thing less effectively. If the Raptors think they can be successful emulating the GS model with Lowry as Curry, DeRozan as Thompson, Miles as Durant, and Ibaka as Green (at least JV is better than Zaza)... well then all I can say is I look forward to what the next Raptors head coach will bring to the table.

          Comment


          • #6
            if zaza hadn't done a tonya harding on Kawhi, people might be singing the praises of slow-it-down basketball right now.

            Personally i hate the direction the league is going. the 3 is worth way too much for the difficulty.

            Comment


            • #7
              MixxAOR wrote: View Post
              So after reading a couple of articles I just wanted to start a thread about where do you see the game going. Can we predict how the game will change? Do we counter it (aka zig while everyone zags) or do we try to catch up


              http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-positions-now





              http://www.isportsweb.com/2016/08/01...e-nba-defense/




              Could this mean having elite ISO and Post Up players will become a premium if everyone moves to switching defense?
              Great thread idea!!!!

              I am a big believer in the cyclical nature of sports.
              In a copy cat league like the NBA ..pretty much all conventional wisdom is now all in on what was laughed at as Nellie Ball in the 90's and now is called small ball or position-less ball. Certain types of players have been drafted to play this style of ball...but....the pool of talent goes only so deep. Things do turn around as the only constant is change.

              When you don't have the matching talent to go one on one in a certain style of game..rather than get your brains beat out trying to beat them at their own game....you change how the game gets played....

              As the Monty Python sketch goes...Big boy bball isn't dead..it's just resting.

              For how long? Guessing less than 3 years.
              Last edited by Demographic Shift; Fri Jul 21st, 2017, 01:35 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                KHD wrote: View Post
                if zaza hadn't done a tonya harding on Kawhi, people might be singing the praises of slow-it-down basketball right now.

                Personally i hate the direction the league is going. the 3 is worth way too much for the difficulty.
                Well Spurs probably would've taken that Game 1 but can't say for sure if they would've won the series.

                As far as 3 goes I think they should decrease the diameter of the hoop, make it tougher.
                All man. All amazing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                  Well Spurs probably would've taken that Game 1 but can't say for sure if they would've won the series.

                  As far as 3 goes I think they should decrease the diameter of the hoop, make it tougher.
                  no maybe not but they were possibly going to be the only team to give GSW any kind of difficulty whatsoever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                    Great thread idea!!!!

                    I am a big believer in the cyclical nature of sports.
                    In a copy cat league like the NBA ..pretty much all conventional wisdom is now all in on what was laughed at as Nellie Ball in the 90's and now is called small ball or position-less ball. Certain types of players have been drafted to play this style of ball...but....the pool of talent goes only so deep. Things do turn around as the only constant is change.

                    When you don't have the matching talent to go one on one in a certain style of game..rather than get your brains beat out trying to beat them at their own game....you change how the game gets played....

                    As the Monty Python sketch goes...Big boy bball isn't dead..it's just resting.

                    For how long? Guessing less than 3 years.
                    The historically great post players would be even more dominant in today's league than they were in their time. Imagine prime Duncan posting up a stretch 4 30 times a game. Hilarity.

                    The problem right now is that those type of guys are being taught to change.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't think Post Up is dying off. I just think position that we associate with post up is going to change. Back in the day when we think post up we thought Centers and Power Forwards but now I think it's gonna be used heavily by wing players. Lebron, KD, Kawhi all use post up effectively.
                      All man. All amazing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ben Falk has a similar take as the isports writer about attacking the mismatch with ISO.

                        The announcers on TV exhort the players to attack the mismatch, the offense stops moving, spaces out and everyone watches one player go to work. It’s as if the game was suddenly teleported to the 1990s and isolation basketball is back in style.

                        And this is where switching becomes a little more complicated to evaluate, because it’s not actually clear that this is efficient offense. Both of these things can be true: after a switch the offense has more of an advantage than it did when the possession started, and attacking that mismatch one-on-one may actually be worse for the offense than if it had never gotten the switch at all. By switching, defenses can lure offenses into playing against their own self-interest: the mismatch is a bright light teams are irresistibly drawn towards, even if that light may turn out to be a bug-zapper.
                        https://cleaningtheglass.com/flipping-the-switch/
                        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          KHD wrote: View Post
                          The historically great post players would be even more dominant in today's league than they were in their time. Imagine prime Duncan posting up a stretch 4 30 times a game. Hilarity.

                          The problem right now is that those type of guys are being taught to change.
                          Yeah...and imagine Robinson shooting 3's and switching to guard 1 through 5.
                          Two beer away from being two beers away.

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            When thinking about old school players it reminded me what Isiah Thomas said about Magic Johnson. In today's game he would be a centre and not a point guard. At 28:25
                            All man. All amazing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Meh...the greatest players don't fit into molds. In any era would Barkley be a shooting guard?
                              Two beer away from being two beers away.

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