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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    Pascal has bankable upside, and his trade value right now is low based on actual performance.

    Those guys' trade value is literally negative based on actual performance. You are trading for ONLY upside, and it is very easily arguable that Pascal by himself has more upside than all those pieces combined, considering he has already realized (in the very recent past) 2nd team all-NBA potential.
    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.

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    • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

      Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
      Agree with the bolded, other GM's aren't sure how he plays when he comes back, so if there is any reason to expect he will come back to 2020 form, why would you trade him? The record of players coming back from serious injury and any kind of surgery seems to be pretty good these days. Bobby would be crazy to trade him for trash even if there's a 50/50 chance of him fully recovering. Even if it takes all year. The Raptors aren't threatening to take a championship this year. Bring Siakim along slowly, let other guys get playing/development time, and reintroduce Pascal to the lineup when it is safe to do so.

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      • DanH wrote: View Post

        So you admit your only point is that Pascal struggled in situations he will likely never be in again and you fully expect he will return to his previous form of excelling the the playoffs and regular season as per our chip run and the regular season that followed it? Great, glad we could find some common ground.

        I mean, if that is, as you say, your case. Then we have little to argue about.
        Damn you are stubborn, it comes with age i guess lol.

        you seem to equate every adversity that faces individual players as in this case Siakam as being all equal

        to move on with this back and forth discussion…lets cheer that he redeem himself this season.

        Because COVID and it’s inconveniences that goes with it is still around and most especially now that he is carrying a very young team without the luxury of players surrounding him in 2019 who aided his rise to riches.

        adversity at the highest level

        sink or swim season for Pascal Siakam
        You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

        When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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        • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

          Damn you are stubborn, it comes with age i guess lol.

          you seem to equate every adversity that faces individual players as in this case Siakam as being all equal

          to move on with this back and forth discussion…lets cheer that he redeem himself this season.

          Because COVID and it’s inconveniences that goes with it is still around and most especially now that he is carrying a very young team without the luxury of players surrounding him in 2019 who aided his rise to riches.

          adversity at the highest level

          sink or swim season for Pascal Siakam
          Wouldn't adversity at the highest level be, say, if he broke both legs? Would you be criticising his play in those conditions? Wouldn't someone suggesting that was proof he crumbled under adversity sound a little silly? Wouldn't it be funny if they thought that his play on two broken legs was a good way to judge what his play would be like in normal conditions?
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

            Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
            so what exactly is your plan then just curious?

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            • If it wasn't for Pascal this team would've been even in deeper shit than it is now.
              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

              Comment


              • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

                Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
                It's not that GMs aren't sure he's worth his contract, it's that his recent play has them thinking they can get him for cheap (or that he is available at all, which by all accounts, nope, not really).

                You are well within your rights to question whether he is worth his contract, no matter how wrong or silly it is to do so, so long as you don't mind being described as wrong or silly.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • DanH wrote: View Post

                  It's not that GMs aren't sure he's worth his contract, it's that his recent play has them thinking they can get him for cheap (or that he is available at all, which by all accounts, nope, not really).

                  You are well within your rights to question whether he is worth his contract, no matter how wrong or silly it is to do so, so long as you don't mind being described as wrong or silly.
                  Exactly. Raptors have their first off-year in a decade (which, itself, is highly explainable) and GMs and big market media are circling like vultures.

                  The main reason Pascal is in rumors is because he's been put into a role (i.e. Kawhi replacement) that makes him look bad at the worst possible times. And for some reason, even our own fanbase is turning on him because of that. Not his fault - who else on this team is supposed to carry that load?

                  Otherwise, GMs know that Pascal is a very good-to-great player, who is a proven championship calibre #2 guy.

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                  • I viewed the Pascal trade rumors as people (media) thinking the Raps were going to blow the team up with Kyle on his way out and a top 4 prospect coming in.

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post

                      Wouldn't adversity at the highest level be, say, if he broke both legs? Would you be criticising his play in those conditions? Wouldn't someone suggesting that was proof he crumbled under adversity sound a little silly? Wouldn't it be funny if they thought that his play on two broken legs was a good way to judge what his play would be like in normal conditions?
                      Either you overstretch yourself with 2019 nostalgia or you threw me hypotheticals that has not happened lol….

                      if that is how you roll with some strawman arguments, that is just fine …. I’d rather open a can of worms of here and now, thus recency bias allowed me to conclude, he is Mentally Weak !

                      Let’s move on buddy hahaha
                      You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                      When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


                      Comment


                      • I don't think Pascal has played up to his contract, but I think he can get there. I would like him to be more consistent as a shooter from three and add a midrange game. At this point when he shoots, I don't have confidence it's going in. He's not that far off from being a 32-36M player, but he needs to be a bit more consistent. I expect a good year from him.

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                        • saints91 wrote: View Post
                          I don't think Pascal has played up to his contract, but I think he can get there. I would like him to be more consistent as a shooter from three and add a midrange game. At this point when he shoots, I don't have confidence it's going in. He's not that far off from being a 32-36M player, but he needs to be a bit more consistent. I expect a good year from him.
                          What is your expectation for the contract? He's gotten a bit more than the rookie max extension because he made an all-nba team. But that contract was deserved. It's the same contract that guys like Adebayo, Murray, Fox, Ingram, Mitchell got. He might have made a little more because of that bonus, but it's essentially the same contract.

                          He's a really good (elite even), #2 player. The big difference between him and guys like Murray, Mitchell and Ingram is that he can play defense.

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                          • planetmars wrote: View Post

                            What is your expectation for the contract? He's gotten a bit more than the rookie max extension because he made an all-nba team. But that contract was deserved. It's the same contract that guys like Adebayo, Murray, Fox, Ingram, Mitchell got. He might have made a little more because of that bonus, but it's essentially the same contract.

                            He's a really good (elite even), #2 player. The big difference between him and guys like Murray, Mitchell and Ingram is that he can play defense.
                            I expect better efficiency. Those guys you mentioned all have better ORTGs at similar or even much higher USG. Pascal is benefiting from the void left by Kawhi and the fact that we've been stacking our roster with offensively challenged players, so he gets a lot of shots by default.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              I expect better efficiency. Those guys you mentioned all have better ORTGs at similar or even much higher USG. Pascal is benefiting from the void left by Kawhi and the fact that we've been stacking our roster with offensively challenged players, so he gets a lot of shots by default.
                              Again it's a 2-way sport. How are Ingram, Mitchell and Murray defensively? Or Bam's usage in comparison?

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post

                                It's not that GMs aren't sure he's worth his contract, it's that his recent play has them thinking they can get him for cheap (or that he is available at all, which by all accounts, nope, not really).

                                You are well within your rights to question whether he is worth his contract, no matter how wrong or silly it is to do so, so long as you don't mind being described as wrong or silly.
                                yes his recent play thank you. I’ll take silly or wrong over smug and arrogant any day of the week kid

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