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  • golden
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    What? Are you just being contrarian or intentionally obtuse? You are the one making irrelevant comparisons to disparage the deal. I’m simply pointing out that, compared to his peers, he has as good or a better case fir his deal as anyone.

    The implication you’re making here is as ridiculous as the player comps you were making earlier.
    You're suggesting that there should be some type of premium because Pascal is the "2nd best player on a championship team"?

    1) There is a huge drop-off between Kawhi and Pascal. This needs no explanation.
    2) It is not a given that you pay a premium to a guy who helped you win a championship. Draymond is a bonafide DPOY, multi-time all-star on 3 championship teams, and he's never been a max player.

    The team had all the leverage.... except for one thing. Pure speculation, but one scenario could be that Pascal's agent threatened to take the Qualifying Offer and become unrestricted if he didn't get the max. Porzingis apparently talked about doing that before he got traded.

    Leave a comment:


  • chris
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    He "was" a bargain. But now he's a big bet. I love everything Pascal stands for... so now we're all hoping and praying now he can justify that bet.
    i guess i disagree that it's a big risk. if he does absolutely nothing to improve on his performance from last year i think the deal is still worth it, in this market. if he improves at all it's gravy

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Good lord.... if Masai allows every Raptor player agent to use the " ______ player on a championship team" line against him in contract negotiations, then we're doomed. Every guy on our roster is going to be overpaid..... and the guy most responsible for that championship isn't even here anymore. lol.
    What? Are you just being contrarian or intentionally obtuse? You are the one making irrelevant comparisons to disparage the deal. I’m simply pointing out that, compared to his peers, he has as good or a better case fir his deal as anyone.

    The implication you’re making here is as ridiculous as the player comps you were making earlier.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    chris wrote: View Post

    why should he, at this stage? he's been a massive bargain as a late first round pick, it's the first big contract of his career, and we're set to have a fuckload of cap space anyway. if we were pressed cap-wise that might make a bit of sense but we have quite a bit of flexibility.


    i expect him to be better than all five of those guys so it's probably a good deal.
    He "was" a bargain. But now he's a big bet. I love everything Pascal stands for... so now we're all hoping and praying now he can justify that bet.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Siakam was the second best player on a championship team. Brown is the fourth or fifth (?) option in Boston and is coming off a disappointing season. Hield is a nice player but he’s a step or two below Pascal.
    Good lord.... if Masai allows every Raptor player agent to use the " ______ player on a championship team" line against him in contract negotiations, then we're doomed. Every guy on our roster is going to be overpaid..... and the guy most responsible for that championship isn't even here anymore. lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • chris
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.
    why should he, at this stage? he's been a massive bargain as a late first round pick, it's the first big contract of his career, and we're set to have a fuckload of cap space anyway. if we were pressed cap-wise that might make a bit of sense but we have quite a bit of flexibility.

    golden wrote: View Post
    I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.
    i expect him to be better than all five of those guys so it's probably a good deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.I
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post

    Everyone looks up to Lebron, and Lebron is no longer taking any more pay cuts. It's a business and players will take every inch they can. I bet all the players, ie) his peers, are really happy for him.

    The only home court discount now a days is term.. and even that means nothing when a guy can demand a trade like PG just did this summer, or AD did last year.

    Best NBA contracts will be for guys that under perform into their second contract, sign a long term secure deal, and then become MIP candidates overnight. Pascal's growth came 1 year too early.
    Pascal's growth helped us win a championship. If Pascal continues to improve, he becomes star player and the contract is worth, if he doesn't, then he already proved he is the second scoring option on a championship team. 2020 free agency isn't good, 2021 will be a crazy one though and some of our players come off the books.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Siakam was the second best player on a championship team. Brown is the fourth or fifth (?) option in Boston and is coming off a disappointing season. Hield is a nice player but he’s a step or two below Pascal.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.

    I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.
    Everyone looks up to Lebron, and Lebron is no longer taking any more pay cuts. It's a business and players will take every inch they can. I bet all the players, ie) his peers, are really happy for him.

    The only home court discount now a days is term.. and even that means nothing when a guy can demand a trade like PG just did this summer, or AD did last year.

    Best NBA contracts will be for guys that under perform into their second contract, sign a long term secure deal, and then become MIP candidates overnight. Pascal's growth came 1 year too early.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    This is irrelevant. You can only compare contracts to other similarly situated players in terms of years and time of signing. This is absolutely in the market compared to his peers and may even be below market without the fifth year.
    Yeah, I know how market dynamics work and Pascal took full advantage of the timing. Like I said, good for him. I was hoping he would have been a bit less greedy, but I guess the days of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker taking hometown discounts are ancient history.

    I mean, you could compare Pascal to Murray and Simmons (full max), but you could also use Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield's offers as comps (20-22M/yr). I thought he would end up coming somewhere in between, say 25-27M/year. That said, after Pascal's deal, Brown and Buddy probably aren't going to take those offers.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Pascal was one of the best players out of his draft class. So he gets paid for it. It's really that simple.

    Pascal, Ben and Jamal got the max. Buddy wants one too (but the Kings screwed themselves by signing Harrison Barnes). They are all worth it IMO. It's how the NBA works. Jaylen wants one too but he's under performed.

    Next year, Tatum will get a max. As will Fox and Mitchell. I wouldn't be surprised if Markkanen or Bam got one as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shredder
    replied
    It's market value.

    The dude had a breakout season last year. He was a key piece to a championship team. He won MIP.

    He was going to get his bag, either from us or some other team. This way we keep him and keep in good standings with him. Could it backfire? There's always a chance. There's also a chance that he continues to progress, and plays into this contract.

    Anyone on the list that he is making more, will be making the same or more the next time their contract comes up. Unless they have crappy agents.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Comparing Pascal to overpaid guys doesn't make me feel better about it. Davis has been a consistently top 5 player for years ... by stats anyway. He deserves a monster deal. Pascal hasn't earned this deal yet. It's a hope and a prayer.
    Davis got paid as much as he could when he was able to sign his last deal. He will make way more once he signs his next deal. You know this. These deals are not indicators of who the best player is.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Jokic, Towns, Gobert,....
    This is irrelevant. You can only compare contracts to other similarly situated players in terms of years and time of signing. This is absolutely in the market compared to his peers and may even be below market without the fifth year.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    007 wrote: View Post

    Another way to look at it: Siakam will be paid less than or roughly equal to Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward, Tobias Harris, Khris Middleton, Kemba Walker and Jamal Murray. Beal will be the same once his extension kicks in. Davis will get a monster deal next summer, which will start same time as Pascal’s
    Comparing Pascal to overpaid guys doesn't make me feel better about it. Davis has been a consistently top 5 player for years ... by stats anyway. He deserves a monster deal. Pascal hasn't earned this deal yet. It's a hope and a prayer.

    Leave a comment:

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