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  • Puffer
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
    Agree with the bolded, other GM's aren't sure how he plays when he comes back, so if there is any reason to expect he will come back to 2020 form, why would you trade him? The record of players coming back from serious injury and any kind of surgery seems to be pretty good these days. Bobby would be crazy to trade him for trash even if there's a 50/50 chance of him fully recovering. Even if it takes all year. The Raptors aren't threatening to take a championship this year. Bring Siakim along slowly, let other guys get playing/development time, and reintroduce Pascal to the lineup when it is safe to do so.

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  • Yuri Gagarin
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Pascal has bankable upside, and his trade value right now is low based on actual performance.

    Those guys' trade value is literally negative based on actual performance. You are trading for ONLY upside, and it is very easily arguable that Pascal by himself has more upside than all those pieces combined, considering he has already realized (in the very recent past) 2nd team all-NBA potential.
    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.

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  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    I rest my case
    So you admit your only point is that Pascal struggled in situations he will likely never be in again and you fully expect he will return to his previous form of excelling the the playoffs and regular season as per our chip run and the regular season that followed it? Great, glad we could find some common ground.

    I mean, if that is, as you say, your case. Then we have little to argue about.

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  • golden
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Those are great defensive numbers. Also, you very very rarely see a guy on lists like that who is also asked to close out games offensively. It is possible that Siakam rimming out eog buzzer beaters has something to do with his defensive output for the previous 30-35 minutes. Stars who can play two way at that level tend to pick their spots defensively as they mature so they can do what they need to offensively. Might need that out of Siakam if they want to keep handing him the ball in the clutch.
    Yeah, Pascal covers a ton of ground, like a middle linebacker in Nurse’s highly demanding defense. And Fred is like a free safety. Pretty sure they both would be top 10 in distanced travelled in a game - at least on defense.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    Those are great defensive numbers. Also, you very very rarely see a guy on lists like that who is also asked to close out games offensively. It is possible that Siakam rimming out eog buzzer beaters has something to do with his defensive output for the previous 30-35 minutes. Stars who can play two way at that level tend to pick their spots defensively as they mature so they can do what they need to offensively. Might need that out of Siakam if they want to keep handing him the ball in the clutch.

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  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Again, I point you to the 2019-20 campaign when Kawhi was gone and Siakam performed well enough to earn an all-NBA nod. It was only when the extremely weird circumstances of the bubble and the COVID season came along that he struggled. Why would we attribute those struggles to generally being unable to perform under pressure when we have loads of evidence he is quite capable of that, when we have blindingly obvious reasons why he might have struggled practically slapping us in the face?
    I rest my case

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  • inthepaint
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

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  • MixxAOR
    replied

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  • planetmars
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    May 13th, 2021. He got ejected. lol. #Culture

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-dwight-howard
    ORTG of 200
    USG of 30%
    TS% of 100%
    BPM of 31.1
    WS/48 of .475

    Superstar

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    May 13th, 2021. He got ejected. lol. #Culture

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-dwight-howard
    I am shocked

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  • golden
    replied
    TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

    when was the last time he played again?
    May 13th, 2021. He got ejected. lol. #Culture

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-dwight-howard

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    inthepaint wrote: View Post

    The difference would be that on the Demar for Kawhi trade we were already at the top of the conference with ECF appearance and high reg season wins the years prior. Team was primed for a finals run. We're rebuilding now, so if we were to get a superstar here with Siakam as the trade centerpiece, we'd still be treading water.

    Team needs some time to develop and add value from within now. If anything the only Siakam move that would make sense is a for a solid young prospect, ballast, and 3 or 4 first round picks imo. That's what would golden state would have to cough up at minimum, but as usual, they probably want to have the cake and eat it too (like Philly at the trade deadline with Lowry). Sometimes you need to sacrifice some of the future to make a true title push now, but a lot of times teams want to have both it ways. So Siakam ain't going nowhere, they can salivate all they want.
    both could make sense depending on how the season goes but premptively doing it right now is too early for one move or another. Siakam is also on a longer term deal and its not like he is playing like ben simmons so you can actually get assets for the guy that are decent.


    Also the teams that want siakam don't have 3-4 first round picks on average and if they do its not picks that you want. Think about LA and their teams... what picks are you getting... picks that are in 2027 and 2028... that is so far out that who the heck knows and doesn't help you for this situation anyways so then lets say you end up in the same situation you are now. Barnes being siakam or OG level good but no one to pair him with in 3 years.... well SHUCKS.. doesn't that just suck a fat one...

    Also you aren't out tanking the Thunder or Houston for the next 3 years and a few other teams so what are we doing with trying to get worse except watch a crap product

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Not really. Fred is our Udonis Haslem.
    when was the last time he played again?

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post

    If you trade Pascal it has to be for the final piece of the puzzle (DeMar for Kawhi), right?
    correct

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post

    Yeah, on the one hand there's a core of players a couple years behind them. On the other hand it's not like you line up a team of 7 guys born in the same year, ever. I see more of management keeping their options open by keeping contracts as flexible as possible. All depends on what happens, how guys develop, how the team does, what offers come up, etc. They could hang onto these guys if things are going great. They could look to make moves if progress stalls or a great opportunity comes up. Basically what they've been doing to date. A bit different of a situation than if you have an Embiid or a Giannis on the roster, for sure.

    exactly you don't trap yourself into one way out unless you have to

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